509: The Need to Lead: Lessons from Dogfights, Dunker Drills, and Ego Checks. With Dave Berke.

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[SPEAKER_05]: This is Jockel podcast number 509 with echo trials in me, Jockel willing.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Good evening echo.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Good.

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[SPEAKER_05]: In the battle of Ramadi 2006, every single operation conducted by coalition forces was critical.

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[SPEAKER_05]: It was an all hands-on deck.

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[SPEAKER_05]: violent insurgents controlled two-thirds of the city, regularly launching complex coordinated attacks on friendly forces, every day American service men and women were wounded or killed.

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[SPEAKER_05]: To overcome the enemy, or even to survive, we needed to work together.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines brought their specialized equipment skills and war fighting ability to the fight.

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[SPEAKER_05]: During that battle, I was the commander of Seal Team 3's Task Unit Bruser.

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[SPEAKER_05]: For a small unit, we had a relatively powerful and unique capability, highly trained snipers, forceful breachers, aggressive machine gunners, crafty point men, and elite combat medics.

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[SPEAKER_05]: But in order to maximize our effectiveness in this battle, we had to integrate with the conventional units of the army in the Marine Corps.

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[SPEAKER_05]: These were the circumstances in which I met Dave Burke.

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[SPEAKER_05]: He was a distinguished graduate of the rigorous Marine Corps Basics School.

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[SPEAKER_05]: He finished at the top of his class in flight school and became a naval aviator.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Based on his stellar performance during flight training, he was selected to become a fighter pilot.

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[SPEAKER_05]: As a Marine Corps single-seat F-A-18 fighter pilot, he was selected to attend the Top Gun School.

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[SPEAKER_05]: After the terrorist attacks of September 11, he flew countless combat missions as a pilot and landed hundreds of times on that tiny patch of steel in the ocean called an aircraft carrier.

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[SPEAKER_05]: The Marine Corps then shows a major burq to return to Top Gun as an instructor where he was eventually selected to be the lead instructor at the Top Gun School.

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[SPEAKER_05]: but I didn't know any of this about Dave Burke when I met him in 2006 and I wouldn't find out about any of it for years.

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[SPEAKER_05]: He didn't mention a hint of this impressive pedigree when we met.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Instead, he simply said, I'm Dave from Anglico.

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[SPEAKER_05]: We're here to help you guys out however we can.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And we certainly needed his help.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And that right, there's an excerpt from the forward, which was written by me for a new book, which is called the need to lead a top-gun instructors, lessons on how leadership solves every challenge, and is written by my friend, my coworker, and my brother-in-arms from the Battle of the Body, Dave Burke.

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[SPEAKER_05]: and he is joining us to discuss his book and some of the lessons from his experiences flying fighter jets, supporting troops on the ground, serving in ground combat and of course leading Marines.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Dave, thanks for joining us.

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[SPEAKER_05]: It's good to be here.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, man.

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[SPEAKER_05]: I guess that I am somewhat to blame for this book.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Is that a fact?

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[SPEAKER_05]: That's valid.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I was encouraging you to write it.

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[SPEAKER_05]: You and I would talk about, we'd be at events, we'd talk about leadership.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And you would give your perspective on something.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And I eventually said, hey man, you should write a book.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And you eventually,

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[SPEAKER_05]: Um, complied with that.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And I kind of regretted giving that advice after I got the first draft of the first chapter or whatever it was.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Because you wrote like a military after action report, you wrote like someone who has a Marine Corps officer for 24 years.

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[SPEAKER_05]: not a lot of, not a lot of emotion in your writing, so, you know, we had a bunch of conversations about that and man it got better and better each iteration.

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[SPEAKER_05]: So glad you wrote it.

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[SPEAKER_05]: It's fantastic.

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[SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's way better than I could have hoped for it to be.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And, um, here we are.

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[SPEAKER_05]: What methodology did you use when you were writing it?

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[SPEAKER_05]: Will you like a hour a day guy like I am?

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[SPEAKER_03]: I started like that, and to be honest with you, I didn't work, at least not for a while, because I'd get these fits and starts.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Like, if I had set up on my mind, I wanted to write that sometimes write T3, I was at a time.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Other times I sit there, and I'd write for 15 minutes, and I'm like, this is just garbage.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So, I didn't have the same discipline approach, and you would give me your buys and how to do it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I tried to do that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And then other times when I got into it, I was able to like, I'm going to bang out of the hour every day, and it got easier to do that over time.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

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[SPEAKER_05]: That makes sense.

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[SPEAKER_05]: You kind of have to escape gravitational pole.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And once you get in your groove, that's probably a really good point.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_05]: I never really thought of that before.

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[SPEAKER_05]: So in the beginning, were you honkering down and like, all right, I just got to try and write this thing?

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[SPEAKER_05]: You probably got caught.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Did you get caught up in like re-reading what you wrote and be like, oh, this actually sucks.

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[SPEAKER_05]: I gotta do it again.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Or not really.

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[SPEAKER_03]: No, constantly.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I knew like, I wasn't...

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[SPEAKER_03]: I never thought of myself like as a good writer.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I know it wasn't like a naturally good writer, but I totally underestimated how hard it would be to write this book the way that it was written, and also just do what you said, which is this tell story.

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[SPEAKER_03]: In fact, I've gone out of my way most of my time, like I'm not going to waste my time with the details.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Here's the chronological, you know, the sequence of events, and here's the outcome, like an afteraction report.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So I didn't really know how else to write, and it was really evident in the beginning.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, people learn through stories, I mean, that's why that's why that's the best methodology for teaching right till story telling and so Yeah, the first copy I got the first iterations that you and what's cool about computers is you can see all these drafts like we have the original drafts They're extrem ownership and they're awful.

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[SPEAKER_05]: They're just awful like we didn't know what they're doing.

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[SPEAKER_05]: We wrote it in the third person.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Did you know that?

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[SPEAKER_05]: We wrote it in the third person, so it was like, we were talking about, you know, late, you know, I was talking about juggle willing.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Then did this.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And it's like, bro, that's not how you convey a story is by telling in the third person.

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[SPEAKER_05]: But that's what we did.

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[SPEAKER_05]: How do you feel when you first got a copy in the hand in your hands for the first version?

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[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we pumped.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I was, I mean,

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[SPEAKER_03]: I was pretty stoked because not because the time it took into it but I'd be honest with you like this is not something I ever thought I would do ever.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So when I you get a book it's got you know your stories in your name on it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of cool.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean it's it's super cool.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It also was a it also meant like I was done like I got it to a place where

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[SPEAKER_03]: the editors, the publishers, people like you, and I gave this to, you know, you got to read my book as is any good.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That meant it got to a place that it was good enough for the, to get out to the world.

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[SPEAKER_05]: The cover of the book has, some of the five jets flying through the sky.

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[SPEAKER_05]: It's got on F-22 and F-18 and F-35.

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[SPEAKER_05]: What do I miss?

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[SPEAKER_05]: F-16 and F-16.

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[SPEAKER_05]: There you go.

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[SPEAKER_05]: It's got all your jets on there.

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[SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't date.

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[SPEAKER_05]: You feel good about that, don't you?

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[SPEAKER_03]: That part is pretty cool.

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[SPEAKER_05]: They snuck that in there.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Did you advise them on that?

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[SPEAKER_05]: No.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you did.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I did not.

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[SPEAKER_03]: No, it was somebody had a cool idea of Hey, we want to put, you know, we want to, it was some top gun reference, we want to put some planes in the cover.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And when they mentioned that, I'm like, okay, well, can I get them all on there?

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[SPEAKER_03]: So I contributed to that but it was somebody else's idea of using that and then they gave me an example and had like like Russian airplanes on there and like Okay, well, we're gonna do this.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna do it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Let's do it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: This is how we should do it.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, my wife's friend Maggie was in town And so I ended up in preparation for this podcast watching the original top gun and Yeah, I think that's that was your inspiration.

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[SPEAKER_05]: So I can see where you got it from indeed

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[SPEAKER_05]: Well, how often do you watch that?

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[SPEAKER_05]: Do you watch that once a year with your son or anything like that?

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[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have a there's no tradition of watching it, but I'll tell you like There's opportunity comes on here and there like it's just it's out there.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You'll see it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's it's I don't I don't have like a date where I watch it with my kids, but

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[SPEAKER_05]: They'll have you sat there next to them on the couch.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_03]: 100% how fired up is your son?

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[SPEAKER_03]: When like the start of those movies are just kind of cool.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They're just, you know, the music and the buildup, then it goes right into carrier flying.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So it's hard not to think it's, it's awesome.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's super fun.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Have you ever seen that like the actual recruiting numbers that the Navy did from Top Gun?

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[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I ought to be epic.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I've never seen the numbers like officially, the number of times I've heard someone tell the story about, if you're flying airplanes in the military right now, I mean, whether you were 14 like I was at the time or you weren't even born, that movie is

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[SPEAKER_03]: Let a lot of people down the path of Jordan and the military.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, which is awesome Cool, let's get into the book here.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Obviously I'm not gonna read the whole thing and you did the audio book

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[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't record the audio book and so you can get the audio book from with the audiobooks.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Look, I'm a fan of audio books, but this is the kind of book where you get the audio book cool, but you're going to want to highlight, you're going to want to put the little tags on there on little sections you want to refer back to.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Get that first to disco one, right?

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[SPEAKER_05]: Are you going to

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[SPEAKER_05]: It just can be walk away.

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[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, the book comes out October 21st.

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[SPEAKER_05]: It's available for preorder right now.

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[SPEAKER_05]: So preorder the book.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Meanwhile, we're going to go through some of it right now.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And again, I'm just going to kind of hit some of the highlights of the book and then we'll get into it.

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[SPEAKER_05]: This is you your final mission as a top gun student right here, and let's see how it goes.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Tally one I grunted through the strain of the G's within seconds.

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[SPEAKER_05]: I spotted the lone F5E Tiger, a tiny aircraft covered in community and brown camouflage plate.

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[SPEAKER_05]: paint, which was from my vantage was the size of a thumbtack and had all but then it just against the desert floor below.

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[SPEAKER_05]: This was the exact same plane used in the 1986 movie Top Gun that gave Maverick and his wingman goose similar problems.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Only this wasn't a Hollywood set.

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[SPEAKER_05]: This plane was maneuvering for the kill against me.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Showtime 11 is engaged, I alerted to my wingman, resigned, I knew I had no choice but to maintain a turning fight with the F5 abandoning the plan to stay out in front of my larger formation.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Fortunately compared to the dominant F18 Hornet, I controlled the Tiger was a mediocre machine, and I, and one I expected to expose of quickly.

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[SPEAKER_05]: I'll end this in one turn and get back to business.

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[SPEAKER_05]: I thought as I maneuvered for a shot.

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[SPEAKER_05]: but my misplaced confidence was soon demolished by a magnificent countermaneuver by the supposedly inferior enemy, dashing any hopes of a quick kill.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Despite my expectations, my adversary was exceedingly worthy and it was clear a prolonged fight was unfolding.

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[SPEAKER_05]: For a moment, I considered ignoring the voice in my head, telling me this wasn't going well.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Showtime 11 is offensive.

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[SPEAKER_05]: would have been the ideal call announcing to the formation that I was about to dispose of the meager tiger and return to my rightful place at the tip of the spear.

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[SPEAKER_05]: I was anything but, in fact, the pilot at the controls of the F5 moved in a way I had never seen and made it impossible to kill.

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[SPEAKER_05]: So I accepted, so I accepted reality, detached from my initial frustrations, and took on a new role.

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[SPEAKER_05]: My job now was to tie up the band in a close-in dogfight, allowing my wingman the opportunity

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[SPEAKER_05]: so we could try and get back to the formation.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Around and around the tiger, I went plumbing, plumbing toward the earth.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Showtime 12, Fox 2, my wingman, called out mercifully announcing that he launched a simulated missile against the tiger.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Terminate, terminate, the tiger, which I eventually learned was flown by a top gun graduate, called as theoretical demise.

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[SPEAKER_05]: My wingman and we had been in an actual duck.

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[SPEAKER_05]: My wingman had been in an actual dogfight.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Landed what should, what would have been a direct hit.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Showtime 11 terminate.

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[SPEAKER_05]: I acknowledge the successful albeit hypothetical kill and was relieved that my wingman had at last ended this unplanned engagement.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Now we could return to the larger.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Mission.

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[SPEAKER_05]: So there you go.

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[SPEAKER_05]: You're flying this big formation.

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[SPEAKER_05]: You're getting this dog fight.

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[SPEAKER_05]: You think you're going to kick this guy's ass really quickly It doesn't happen.

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[SPEAKER_05]: It takes some time.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Your wingman has to come in and save you and now you've got to go get back to this formation that you're in charge of

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[SPEAKER_05]: But your formation had left you behind, they were on their own, and you end up being able to catch them, and you end up as tail and Charlie, meaning you're just bringing up the rear.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And they go and accomplish this mission, and you don't fire a shot at the actual target you're going after.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And yet,

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[SPEAKER_05]: The whole thing is a big success, and the mission got accomplished, and your team had dominated, and you go on to say that the final mission proved to be a perfect case study for many of the key lessons taught at Top Gun.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Nothing ever happened the way I anticipated missions never went as briefed, chaos rained everywhere, and though I expected my skills in the cockpit to be the main determinant, flight leadership was absolutely the most important factor in my success.

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[SPEAKER_05]: So there you go.

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[SPEAKER_05]: You're opening story, um, that opening story right there, which I found very interesting and you talk about the fact that you expected that what you're job, you know, as a badass top gun, freaking maverick pilot up there that you're going to win the day.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And you talk about that in the book and get the book, she can get all these details.

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[SPEAKER_05]: But it doesn't matter.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Well, like what you did was a tiny fraction of what it took to get the mission done.

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[SPEAKER_05]: And interestingly,

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[SPEAKER_05]: cover and move is completely, that's what we're talking about here, like not only did your wingman have to cover and move with you, but you guys had to cover and move for the rest of the formation.

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[SPEAKER_05]: So that law of combat is very clear in this example.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Prioritized an execute, once again, you had to prioritize getting that guy away from the rest of the formation so that they could carry on and execute the mission, and then clearly decentralized command,

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[SPEAKER_05]: you're not giving orders anymore.

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[SPEAKER_05]: The team is out there executing the mission and you're over here, you know, messing around with this tiger.

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[SPEAKER_05]: So the principles of combat leadership and simple, you know, it's clearly that one's you have a simple plan going into it that the people note execute.

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[SPEAKER_05]: So you got all those bases covered.

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[SPEAKER_05]: This was sort of

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[SPEAKER_03]: Like, almost a eureka moment of, oh yeah, this isn't about me, I mean, I can picture that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think that was, you have these moments in your career that dispel these, like, not just myths, but I think images.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And we've talked about this on this podcast all the time.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Like, there's this image of leadership, which is like, all right.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm in charge, everybody just listen to what I'm going to say.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to get up on the podium and I'm going to brief the team that are all going to be super fired up and I'm going to lead them to victory.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And it looks so cool.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's like this amazing image.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And when I was the flight lead for this mission, I'm like, that's what I'm doing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a student top gun, it's a graduation exercise.

15:51.099 --> 15:53.981
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm leading it and I'm going to like lead the team to victory.

15:56.336 --> 16:10.201
[SPEAKER_03]: that whole thing just gets blown up and like, there's a bunch of stuff's not in the book, but like, you know, we brief, we take off, we get ready, we kind of rally, we get in our formation, the bad guys take off, like, okay everybody's ready, we make this big announcement, and then like we start.

16:10.742 --> 16:16.604
[SPEAKER_03]: And I bet you like that was like 90 seconds into a 30 minute 40 minute flight with this thing holding full support.

16:17.924 --> 16:19.405
[SPEAKER_03]: And at the time you're just like,

16:20.832 --> 16:22.553
[SPEAKER_03]: this whole thing gets shattered in your head.

16:23.233 --> 16:29.956
[SPEAKER_03]: And so there's all the details inside the book, but part of it was like walking back to the debrief light, thinking, this was a disaster.

16:30.676 --> 16:32.637
[SPEAKER_03]: And in the end, it was like, this thing was a total success.

16:32.857 --> 16:33.798
[SPEAKER_03]: This thing was a total success.

16:35.331 --> 16:37.412
[SPEAKER_03]: except I didn't do all the things I thought I was supposed to be doing.

16:37.532 --> 16:40.413
[SPEAKER_03]: And the reason it was success because it's all the four things you just said.

16:41.113 --> 16:43.934
[SPEAKER_03]: Because a cover move simple, practice, execute, and decentralized command.

16:44.635 --> 16:49.596
[SPEAKER_03]: But this was the moment that dispel the myth of like leadership is that you're doing everything.

16:49.716 --> 16:54.018
[SPEAKER_03]: Leadership is you're out in front, leadership is you're the one, the team is following you.

16:54.258 --> 16:58.760
[SPEAKER_03]: And in fact, you're doing it well, it's all exact opposite.

16:59.160 --> 17:00.581
[SPEAKER_03]: is they're out in front doing all this thing.

17:00.641 --> 17:04.985
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was a a really strong visual lesson.

17:05.005 --> 17:14.073
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you literally, when you say tail, I'm like, I can still, in my minds, I like see the four jets that I was following, like 15 miles in front of me, I can see little silhouettes.

17:14.113 --> 17:17.156
[SPEAKER_03]: I could see him on a radar and like, spent the whole day just like chasing down my team.

17:17.536 --> 17:17.757
[SPEAKER_03]: That's out.

17:17.777 --> 17:21.200
[SPEAKER_03]: They're just getting after it and killing everybody and dropping bombs and doing all the things they're supposed to do.

17:21.900 --> 17:46.393
[SPEAKER_05]: And I was just like cruising in behind that and that at the time was like you feel it kind of like a failure until you get to the outcome like, oh my god They totally like crushed it the team just totally dominated Roger You go in a little bit of your Some of your past here you talk about your your once you saw the movie top gun You're like that's what I'm gonna do and your mom Props to mom she said someone's got to do it might as well be you

17:47.894 --> 18:03.596
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and then you go into this mode of a, and everything that you're doing is just focused on becoming a pilot Becoming a and you were up by Marine Corps base so Marine Corps pilots seem like the launch go on you just followed the required steps

18:04.397 --> 18:11.019
[SPEAKER_05]: graduate high school, go to college, go to Marine Corps off your candidate school, get commissioned, and then it's the basic school.

18:11.459 --> 18:15.640
[SPEAKER_05]: You say for the next two years, I was trained evaluated and ranked against my student pilot peers.

18:15.700 --> 18:23.601
[SPEAKER_05]: We competed in head to head to be selected for the same incredibly precise goal, the chance to fly a hornet's off of a carrier.

18:26.082 --> 18:26.222
[SPEAKER_05]: So,

18:29.763 --> 18:31.884
[SPEAKER_05]: Flying here, it's off of Harry or it's off of a carrier.

18:32.824 --> 18:38.367
[SPEAKER_05]: Again, you and I talked about this before you how hard it is to land on a carrier.

18:38.387 --> 18:41.389
[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to get into that story at some point, because this is a huge deal.

18:43.710 --> 18:56.056
[SPEAKER_05]: It's kind of crazy that you would volunteer, a human being, not just a you necessarily Dave Burke, but it's kind of crazy to think about, hey, what you're going to do is you're going to volunteer for this job.

18:56.676 --> 19:05.199
[SPEAKER_05]: where you're going to do this insanely dangerous thing over and over and over again for a 25-year career.

19:05.839 --> 19:07.099
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what you think about that.

19:07.259 --> 19:08.620
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, hey, here's what you're going to do.

19:08.640 --> 19:19.603
[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to give you this insanely difficult thing that requires all kinds of mental and physical skills and it's insanely dangerous.

19:20.543 --> 19:23.764
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's what you're volunteering to do for 25 years of your life.

19:27.903 --> 19:34.912
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, eventually you're signed to a single seat carry your based F-18 squadron station so then California.

19:35.232 --> 19:38.216
[SPEAKER_05]: The exact one I told my mom about a decade earlier mission accomplished.

19:39.718 --> 19:43.963
[SPEAKER_05]: You say, or so, I assume, um,

19:45.887 --> 19:49.708
[SPEAKER_05]: in a profession where being technically outstanding was the norm.

19:50.048 --> 19:53.209
[SPEAKER_05]: What made a truly great pilot was how well they could lead.

19:53.269 --> 19:54.850
[SPEAKER_05]: And again, I'm reading the introduction of this book.

19:54.870 --> 20:02.072
[SPEAKER_05]: And what you're kind of setting up is that being a pilot, and being a Marine Corps pilot isn't just about being a pilot.

20:02.132 --> 20:05.173
[SPEAKER_05]: There's something that, as you just mentioned, more important.

20:05.573 --> 20:08.414
[SPEAKER_05]: What makes a truly great pilot is leading.

20:09.514 --> 20:11.015
[SPEAKER_05]: And then you go on to say that,

20:12.925 --> 20:20.214
[SPEAKER_05]: There's all kinds of issues you got to deal with, right, as a pilot, complex formations, bad weather, enemy weapons, like all those things are hard.

20:21.716 --> 20:23.177
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is what's interesting.

20:23.398 --> 20:29.505
[SPEAKER_05]: The attributes required to successfully lead a flight are the same ones that allow someone to lead anywhere.

20:31.328 --> 20:34.790
[SPEAKER_05]: And as a fighter pilot, you realize that flying is leadership.

20:35.691 --> 20:46.598
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the, I would say it were, my guess is that recognition of that must have been, you know what?

20:46.638 --> 20:56.445
[SPEAKER_05]: I could, we're talking about like the idea of writing a book when you started to recognize, oh yeah, these things that I did in the cockpit are the same things that I did over here when I was leading Marines.

20:57.105 --> 21:00.007
[SPEAKER_05]: That must have been a little again, a little bit of a eureka moment.

21:00.207 --> 21:08.139
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, 100% and certainly backtracking from the beginning like when you're a little kid wanting to be a pilot and then when you're going through all the training and stuff

21:10.393 --> 21:12.254
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not really talking about flight leadership.

21:12.474 --> 21:16.576
[SPEAKER_03]: They're just talking about, can you do the things inside the cockpit and make the airplane do what it wants?

21:16.676 --> 21:17.716
[SPEAKER_03]: Can you be a pilot?

21:18.357 --> 21:22.178
[SPEAKER_03]: So you spent all these years just thinking that's what flying is.

21:22.758 --> 21:24.759
[SPEAKER_03]: And you've got to be good at this skill and that skill.

21:24.799 --> 21:28.661
[SPEAKER_03]: And you learn all sorts of data and navigate, how to drop bombs, how to fly information, how to fly it.

21:28.741 --> 21:29.902
[SPEAKER_03]: And all these stuff you learn.

21:31.122 --> 21:48.815
[SPEAKER_03]: And then at the end they're like, okay, you're done, you graduated, you have your wings, you're qualified pilot, you have completed the syllabus, you are officially a pilot and almost overnight, like the next day you show up in a regular squadron and you're thinking, oh, I'm good, I know how to do it, and like, hey, everybody is good at finding an airplane.

21:48.975 --> 21:49.816
[SPEAKER_03]: Nobody cares about that here.

21:50.076 --> 21:55.640
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so assumed that nobody's going to give you any props for being what your grades were in flight, nobody cares.

21:56.220 --> 21:57.762
[SPEAKER_03]: They want to know, how can you lead?

21:58.883 --> 22:02.747
[SPEAKER_03]: And so then you have this discovery of what flying really is about.

22:03.728 --> 22:11.215
[SPEAKER_03]: And then at one point you, it took me a while, you make the link of like, it's all leadership is just leadership.

22:11.615 --> 22:18.982
[SPEAKER_03]: And you get so wrapped up in the cockpit sometimes thinking that this setting is so different, this environment is so different, this scenario is so,

22:21.126 --> 22:23.231
[SPEAKER_03]: hard to relate to that it must be different.

22:23.651 --> 22:24.152
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's not.

22:24.413 --> 22:26.718
[SPEAKER_03]: It's exactly exactly the same.

22:31.134 --> 22:53.027
[SPEAKER_05]: Fast forward a little bit while the title this book the need to lead in folks that classic top gun movie quote echo Charles read you approve disapprove totally proof hundred percent nineteen eighty six is back coming back the need to lead in folks the classic top gun movie quote it is who thought of the title need to lead is that you

22:56.347 --> 23:10.743
[SPEAKER_05]: the idea came from two different people that I totally resisted initially and like that's just I'm not doing that I remember you resisted you presented it to me Yeah, as like a course of action you did not want to follow you like hey, I'm here in this, but I just that's too I think that's too too much.

23:10.863 --> 23:12.485
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well, how did they swear your mind?

23:12.585 --> 23:13.066
[SPEAKER_05]: Who thought of it?

23:14.014 --> 23:24.406
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, it's two different people I was doing some edits with and and the phrase inside the book, like it been, or they're like, you need to lead your way through this or what's needed here is leadership.

23:24.426 --> 23:27.870
[SPEAKER_03]: Like the connection of needing to lead was all, it's all throughout the book.

23:27.890 --> 23:28.551
[SPEAKER_03]: The whole book is like,

23:29.272 --> 23:47.857
[SPEAKER_03]: you need to lead here, or some variation of that, and two friends that I was working with both at the same time, like separately, and the fact that it happened that they weren't coordinating with each other, and they both said it, I'm like, wow, I heard the exact same thing yesterday from my buddy who said that.

23:48.667 --> 23:51.868
[SPEAKER_03]: I knew there was something inside there, and they were like, people were gonna love it.

23:52.128 --> 23:55.009
[SPEAKER_03]: And in my mind, I'm like, I'm not, I get fine for using top-owned quotes.

23:55.049 --> 23:56.210
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't use a top-ground quote.

23:57.951 --> 24:01.572
[SPEAKER_03]: Once I made the link between it's a cool reference, and it's also 100% true.

24:01.772 --> 24:05.233
[SPEAKER_03]: I was very quickly jumped on board with that idea.

24:07.674 --> 24:10.797
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, the need to lead invokes the classic top gun movie quote.

24:10.857 --> 24:12.038
[SPEAKER_05]: It's undeniable truth.

24:12.118 --> 24:15.942
[SPEAKER_05]: I experienced it as Marine Corps officer, fighter pilot, ground combat leader, husband, and father.

24:16.122 --> 24:24.129
[SPEAKER_05]: This book's purpose is not only to help the reader be a better leader, but also to understand that leadership is a universal requirement for success, no matter the environment.

24:24.469 --> 24:30.435
[SPEAKER_05]: It is intended for anyone who seeks every day to improve themselves as a human being and to improve their team.

24:30.975 --> 24:33.718
[SPEAKER_05]: Every person needs to lead in order to succeed.

24:35.672 --> 24:40.615
[SPEAKER_05]: And then you ask the question, so how do we develop these necessary skills?

24:42.035 --> 25:01.065
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, you kind of give a little background on how we all started working together because you talk a little bit about, you'd mean life being on the ground and the battle for money, what I opened up this thing with and what we were doing there and then how we kind of connect reconnected again and you jumped into national and front of what

25:03.410 --> 25:07.093
[SPEAKER_05]: And you know, you go through, I think this is the first person.

25:07.273 --> 25:09.856
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, this isn't in any of my books.

25:11.797 --> 25:18.884
[SPEAKER_05]: You go through the four core beliefs that underline our organizational leadership philosophies at Ashland front.

25:19.024 --> 25:21.606
[SPEAKER_05]: So the first one, everyone is a leader.

25:23.327 --> 25:23.968
[SPEAKER_05]: Tell me about that one.

25:24.128 --> 25:26.530
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you cannot make it more straightforward.

25:26.590 --> 25:27.851
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I,

25:30.012 --> 25:30.212
[SPEAKER_03]: man.

25:30.993 --> 25:34.596
[SPEAKER_03]: I could talk for a long time about what I learned about being a part of echelon front.

25:35.236 --> 25:43.583
[SPEAKER_03]: And super obvious that, you know, I'm a leadership instructor, so I'm teaching with, you know, working with clients, helping themselves problems, but the the biggest part of that experience is what I have learned.

25:44.184 --> 25:45.705
[SPEAKER_03]: And what we as a team have learned,

25:46.025 --> 26:02.861
[SPEAKER_03]: about ourselves and about our company and about what we do over time and you know I can't pinpoint the first time you said it I can't look back and and define a moment where that hit me but the idea that that you have had from the beginning is that every single person's in a leadership role, every person as a leader.

26:03.542 --> 26:15.334
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's you can go back and look at like a PowerPoint slide that I had from 2007 and it'll say decentralized command everybody leads.

26:15.514 --> 26:27.105
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so it's like, but what's interesting is I bet there is the moment that you might have hard time pinning down is like at some point, you know, you probably heard me say that a hundred times and then one time you went, oh,

26:28.342 --> 26:29.563
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I know what he's talking about.

26:29.583 --> 26:29.783
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

26:30.023 --> 26:33.125
[SPEAKER_03]: Like that kind of, I think that's how this stuff happens.

26:33.145 --> 26:37.308
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's how these lessons form, too, is listen, every now and then something happens.

26:37.328 --> 26:42.811
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just like, you know, a lightning strike, but a lot of the times you have to reflect back on these things and what it means.

26:43.832 --> 27:03.080
[SPEAKER_03]: And one of the things I notice, especially when we're working with clients, is oh, we're bringing in this company to talk about leadership as, you know, the things that we teach and be like, oh, I'm not, I'm not leadership that's that's my boss or my supervisor or that's the vice president or whatever and and all these frontline individual contributors are thinking, oh, this doesn't apply to me.

27:03.860 --> 27:06.562
[SPEAKER_03]: You're like, no, no, no, this is for all of us.

27:06.582 --> 27:07.583
[SPEAKER_03]: This is for everybody.

27:07.623 --> 27:10.165
[SPEAKER_03]: These are universal things that we'll need to understand.

27:10.905 --> 27:14.588
[SPEAKER_03]: And at some point, you realize it's foundational to echelon front is what we teach.

27:15.228 --> 27:18.391
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not based on your position in the org.

27:18.431 --> 27:19.111
[SPEAKER_03]: It's for everybody.

27:19.612 --> 27:20.912
[SPEAKER_03]: Every single person is a leader.

27:21.693 --> 27:25.936
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's almost something that you can almost take that for granted.

27:25.956 --> 27:27.797
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, no, this is a core belief.

27:27.898 --> 27:30.239
[SPEAKER_03]: This is central to what we are and what we do.

27:30.319 --> 27:32.301
[SPEAKER_03]: And it has to be written down and it has to be explained.

27:33.261 --> 27:42.403
[SPEAKER_03]: And when people hear that they go, man, like their whole demeanor changes that are a whole point of view when they're listening and participating, they're realizing this isn't about somebody else's about them.

27:42.463 --> 27:43.404
[SPEAKER_03]: That is a powerful thing.

27:43.924 --> 27:55.707
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and there's something to be said about what I think when I think that your recumament comes for people is when they start to see the principles in the context of what they're doing.

27:56.267 --> 27:58.127
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, like I said, you might have heard me say that a hundred

28:01.148 --> 28:09.878
[SPEAKER_05]: When I was that flight lead, even though I was the guy in charge, those other people read, oh, and it's like it crystallizes in people's minds, getting the context around the principles.

28:10.198 --> 28:17.106
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's why I think this book is very powerful because it contextualizes the principles.

28:18.187 --> 28:23.072
[SPEAKER_05]: into stories where you go, oh, and it just brings it one step closer.

28:23.412 --> 28:29.878
[SPEAKER_05]: Bring the principles, one step closer to someone being able to self-contactualize what the principle is.

28:30.298 --> 28:32.280
[SPEAKER_05]: Because if you don't feel it,

28:33.921 --> 28:40.203
[SPEAKER_05]: or see it in your world, it's very hard to understand it from a detached perspective where you go, oh yeah, oh yeah, everybody leads.

28:40.383 --> 28:55.048
[SPEAKER_05]: You kind of like, oh yeah, okay, that's cute or whatever, but when you actually go, oh wait a second, I'm on a construction site and my form and didn't show up and my next in the line started stepping up and other people started doing their jobs and making things happen.

28:55.168 --> 28:58.209
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, oh, oh, or they didn't do that, in which

29:00.570 --> 29:11.898
[SPEAKER_05]: So, I think that's a powerful thing in the book and it's quite frankly, that's sort of the same format as extreme ownership in the dichotomy of leadership and leadership strategy and tactics.

29:11.918 --> 29:16.522
[SPEAKER_05]: He's like, oh, here's a principle and here's a story that's going to help you contextualize it.

29:17.923 --> 29:24.468
[SPEAKER_05]: And unfortunately, you can't like, I can't just convey it the context to you 100%.

29:24.528 --> 29:24.928
[SPEAKER_05]: He just can't do it.

29:26.609 --> 29:27.169
[SPEAKER_05]: you can't do it.

29:28.410 --> 29:33.813
[SPEAKER_05]: People have to open their minds enough to put it in their own context and make it work.

29:34.454 --> 29:39.877
[SPEAKER_05]: But the more angles they can hear something from, the better chance they have of being able to apply it in their own lives.

29:39.897 --> 29:52.345
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's why having all these books is great because it might, you know, echo might not understand one story that you told, but he might really understand one that left all of it and he said, oh, okay, now I get it.

29:53.045 --> 29:53.766
[SPEAKER_05]: or vice versa.

29:54.066 --> 29:57.949
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think that's what you're doing here in the book, which is awesome.

29:58.490 --> 30:02.313
[SPEAKER_05]: Next leadership principle, leadership exists in every capacity.

30:03.995 --> 30:12.697
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we spent time thinking about that, too, is the obvious case when we're at Shlon Front working with a client is business leadership.

30:13.697 --> 30:26.880
[SPEAKER_03]: A company calls us and we work with them, and there are partners, and we're working through their challenges, we're training their people, we're dealing with whatever issues they have, and it's so front and center that you're talking about, you're professional life, and of course it applies it, or we know that.

30:27.836 --> 30:39.885
[SPEAKER_03]: but we've noticed this for a long time in echelon front and I started to pay more attention to it as it happened more often was people would they'd have so much gratitude for what the book extreme ownership did and what echelon front did to help them in their business.

30:41.066 --> 30:44.808
[SPEAKER_03]: And then they go, hey, but can I ask you, can I ask you a different question?

30:45.068 --> 30:45.889
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're like, yeah, what's up?

30:46.770 --> 30:56.356
[SPEAKER_03]: And they would tell a version of a challenge and they say, hey, this is great, you know, my team has been really good with this, we've been doing decentralized command, it's been really helpful, they've been stepping up.

30:57.177 --> 31:05.729
[SPEAKER_03]: And then they would say, but, and they tell a story, like, you know, my kids really, they're really giving me a run for my money.

31:05.749 --> 31:06.590
[SPEAKER_03]: They're really not.

31:07.391 --> 31:12.238
[SPEAKER_03]: And all of a sudden, the question they'd be asking with it really struggling was, how does this work outside of work?

31:13.279 --> 31:35.593
[SPEAKER_03]: because they were doing great in the professional lives and they walk in the front door and things were kind of sort of fall apart and they'd be frustrated and what we were able to recognize but that we you've known and we know is like hey this these things that you're supposed to do these things apply everywhere there's no uniqueness to the environment it's certainly combat leadership principles for business and life but the things that you do to be successful that you're team

31:36.553 --> 31:37.754
[SPEAKER_03]: applying every aspect of your life.

31:37.794 --> 31:43.459
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, it could be much harder to do at home when we know there's challenges inside there about detaching from your kids and all the fresh airs that goes along with that.

31:43.519 --> 31:44.660
[SPEAKER_03]: But the principles are the same.

31:45.260 --> 31:51.625
[SPEAKER_03]: And it really, as you were just talking about a minute ago about how you have to have that moment of you recognize it for yourself.

31:52.386 --> 32:07.613
[SPEAKER_03]: When you make the recognition that, oh my gosh, this is what I need to be doing in my personal life and my family life and the positive benefit that has that to me it was even more powerful than what it was a work because it was in this environment that was giving the biggest challenges and be quite frank.

32:08.573 --> 32:09.934
[SPEAKER_03]: about the people they cared about the most.

32:10.735 --> 32:14.718
[SPEAKER_03]: So you see the link is like, hey, this isn't just being successful in your corporate life.

32:14.878 --> 32:19.201
[SPEAKER_03]: It's every aspect of life at home at work in your communities and within yourself.

32:19.781 --> 32:23.704
[SPEAKER_03]: Easier said than done, but as undeniable to those principles, they apply everywhere.

32:23.864 --> 32:35.812
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, whether it's a sports team, whether it's your family, like another another funny example that we'll get is I'll get someone that'll ask me, you know, well Well, you know, I actually run a nonprofit and so it's different.

32:35.932 --> 32:38.273
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, oh, oh Well, you know, I can't fire them.

32:38.614 --> 32:42.736
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, oh, so when you're in a profit company You know, you can just fire everybody.

32:42.856 --> 32:47.639
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, they didn't want to they didn't do what I wanted to do So I just fired them all it's like no you don't do that in

32:48.680 --> 32:52.562
[SPEAKER_05]: In any organization, oh, in the sealed teams you can just, oh, you can just fire someone.

32:52.642 --> 33:12.250
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, oh, really you can just get rid of someone immediately No, oh, you got to you got to walk them through you got to give them the documentation got to do the same thing and and so These leadership principles family nonprofit sports team you know what I work with you know 10 year old kids and when I you know what I tell them to do something they don't do it

33:13.926 --> 33:17.028
[SPEAKER_05]: Freaking, you know, I just, I, what am I supposed to do?

33:17.428 --> 33:23.911
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, oh, would you yell at them more or bark orders at them and demand that they respect you because you're older than them and you're the code.

33:24.131 --> 33:26.132
[SPEAKER_05]: You don't like like you can do that.

33:27.965 --> 33:49.428
[SPEAKER_05]: and you're going to get the results, you know that you're going to get, you know there'll be three kids that are scared of you, there'll be two kids that quit that we won, you know one family member dad that comes and talks to you like why you yell in my kids, another family member will come and you yell a little more, but you're not getting what you want from the team because you have an established culture correctly.

33:50.229 --> 34:08.746
[SPEAKER_05]: So, yes, it doesn't matter what organization you're in, family, team, non-profit, for-for-profit, military, first responder, what's a potluck, supper, leader, remember on the office?

34:08.946 --> 34:09.647
[SPEAKER_05]: What was it, the office?

34:09.687 --> 34:11.789
[SPEAKER_05]: They'd have the party committee, right?

34:12.270 --> 34:14.892
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a lot of drama around that party committee on the office.

34:17.073 --> 34:24.015
[SPEAKER_05]: Leadership exists in every capacity and it's the same principles and are there are there nuances?

34:24.055 --> 34:25.896
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course, there's nuances.

34:27.696 --> 34:30.237
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course, it's going to be a little bit different.

34:31.077 --> 34:36.939
[SPEAKER_05]: But the differences are in your use of the tools, not in the tools themselves.

34:38.261 --> 34:41.644
[SPEAKER_05]: But once you know the tools, then you've got to work on learning how to use the tools for sure.

34:42.225 --> 34:44.567
[SPEAKER_05]: I wrote about that in leadership strategy and tactics, like what are working tools?

34:44.948 --> 34:51.174
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, you've got to use a saw a little bit differently on a piece of pine than you do on a piece of oak.

34:51.514 --> 34:53.737
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the same tool, but you've got to use it a little bit differently.

34:54.938 --> 34:55.999
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's what we're doing.

34:56.800 --> 34:59.963
[SPEAKER_05]: Next one, every problem we face is a leadership problem.

35:01.197 --> 35:16.560
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, you're talking about core of why the book is what it is and why we say what we say is, I mean, there's so much human nature involved here that when you run into a problem, everything inside just going to try to attribute to something else.

35:17.260 --> 35:28.823
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's that other person, that's the economy or that was the weather or the list is infinite of all the reasons why certain things have happened in a certain way.

35:29.730 --> 35:48.095
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think when you look at problems and you attribute them to things that are like beyond your control two things happen one is like you feel good for a minute because I'll cool this isn't my fault this is a good feeling like obviously it doesn't last very long but there's a little bit of satisfaction of like oh this problem not my problem nothing I can really do about that

35:49.115 --> 35:55.959
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's something I can't control, and there's some comfort that sits inside there, and then of course the next thing that happens is that the problem persists.

35:56.859 --> 36:04.043
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is the worst, because that immediate gratification of attributing the problem to something external actually doesn't help you.

36:04.543 --> 36:11.326
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that feeling you get comes and goes very quickly in which what it's replaced with is the reality of that problem is there forever, which sucks.

36:12.647 --> 36:26.918
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you change that point of view and like if you look at everything through the lens of leadership like every problem Even problems with the weather even problems with the economy even problems with how other people are interacting if you go.

36:26.958 --> 36:31.162
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, those are all leadership problems It stings a little bit like oh dang that means it's me.

36:31.262 --> 36:33.543
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean it's the way I've communicated the leader on the pro.

36:33.563 --> 36:34.584
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's my problem, right?

36:35.085 --> 36:41.109
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's things for just a split second to have that recognition of oh This isn't those this is a reflection of me

36:42.582 --> 36:46.683
[SPEAKER_03]: And what happens right after that is you are presented with the answer.

36:47.144 --> 36:52.125
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's the best part about it because the answer, if every problem is leadership problem, then by definition, the answer is leadership.

36:52.765 --> 36:58.587
[SPEAKER_03]: And that is the most liberating that is the best feeling in the world, because you go, oh, here's 30 things I can now do differently.

36:58.627 --> 37:02.529
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's different ways I can behave, different ways I can communicate, different ways of using that tool.

37:03.509 --> 37:12.953
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you look at it like that, then on the sudden, these problems beyond control becomes they become solvable problems and then people go, oh, I just let my way through this problem got better, my life got better.

37:13.834 --> 37:17.215
[SPEAKER_03]: And it is just a core belief of you have to look at every problem as a leadership problem.

37:17.355 --> 37:20.657
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you do, leadership will be presented as solution, which is what you want.

37:22.099 --> 37:25.164
[SPEAKER_05]: fourth component, leadership is a skill.

37:25.564 --> 37:25.744
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

37:26.485 --> 37:36.460
[SPEAKER_03]: That ironically sometimes is the hardest one to, to, as a, it's a hurdle to get over sometimes because, you know, we live in a world where if you, if you admire someone,

37:37.119 --> 37:38.200
[SPEAKER_03]: and people do it to you all the time.

37:39.121 --> 37:41.504
[SPEAKER_03]: They put a jocquoise, my leadership role model.

37:42.085 --> 37:51.917
[SPEAKER_03]: And oftentimes, it's like, must be nice, you know, to be born with all these amazing things that he's got and just, you know, you can put some up on a pedestal and think that somehow like,

37:53.138 --> 38:02.643
[SPEAKER_03]: You were born with all these skills, you were just naturally from birth, all the things that we teach, detached, humble, building good relationships, and all the, we admire those things.

38:02.703 --> 38:10.987
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they're very easy to look up and aspire to, but sometimes you got to look at and go, oh, how did that person get to be able to do those things?

38:11.427 --> 38:13.548
[SPEAKER_03]: And what you realize is that we're all in the same boat.

38:13.908 --> 38:18.991
[SPEAKER_03]: We're all born with the same, for the most part, same tendencies, the same natural actions,

38:22.016 --> 38:36.842
[SPEAKER_03]: we know this like with any skill like there's some people like people are pretty musical put an instrument from some kids are better than others some kids are athletic they're they're good at certain sports but if you look at leadership as a skill learning to play an instrument learning to play a sport

38:37.382 --> 38:39.184
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't matter what your talent is.

38:39.204 --> 38:40.165
[SPEAKER_03]: You can have zero talent.

38:40.305 --> 38:41.626
[SPEAKER_03]: If you practice it, you're going to get better.

38:41.646 --> 38:44.288
[SPEAKER_03]: And we teach the skill of leadership.

38:44.348 --> 38:47.091
[SPEAKER_03]: The behaviors and actions and the mindsets that you can apply.

38:47.111 --> 38:49.012
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you apply them, you will get better.

38:49.032 --> 38:51.875
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you look at it as a skill, it means you can improve.

38:52.095 --> 38:54.757
[SPEAKER_03]: And all of a sudden, that person you put up on a pedestal of thinking,

38:55.678 --> 38:59.121
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they were just, I wish I could be like that, but I can't because they were born like a note.

38:59.262 --> 39:00.122
[SPEAKER_03]: That's an old human being.

39:00.182 --> 39:04.106
[SPEAKER_03]: That person learned those skills, which means you can learn them too, which means you can become a good leader as well.

39:04.326 --> 39:04.487
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

39:05.007 --> 39:05.187
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

39:05.508 --> 39:10.713
[SPEAKER_05]: It would be crazy to say, oh, just this person just pick up a guitar and now they can play guitar.

39:11.013 --> 39:11.894
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, it doesn't work.

39:12.494 --> 39:27.917
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, like you said, there can be a person that can, they have really good years for tone and they can start to pick out notes and be like, oh, I recognize that song, that is a type of person, but like they're going to have to practice it.

39:28.638 --> 39:32.482
[SPEAKER_05]: they're just not born with it being able to play guitar and it's the exact same thing with leadership.

39:32.742 --> 39:36.105
[SPEAKER_05]: It is a skill you can definitely get better in, but you got to focus on it.

39:37.406 --> 39:38.928
[SPEAKER_05]: That was all from the introduction, by the way.

39:40.149 --> 39:48.797
[SPEAKER_05]: Getting into the part one of the book, which is the mind sets of a good leader chapter one, every problem is a leadership problem.

39:50.018 --> 39:53.960
[SPEAKER_05]: We're all right into Ramadi Iraq, foot patrol, May of 2006.

39:54.000 --> 40:04.026
[SPEAKER_05]: Going to the book, a massive torrent of enemy machine gun fire erupted from the west over my right shoulder dozens of bullets buzzed just above my head.

40:04.446 --> 40:10.730
[SPEAKER_05]: Tracer's ripped past me, their telltale orange hue still visible despite the daylight, as they strafe the air.

40:11.070 --> 40:18.796
[SPEAKER_05]: They force me down into my left in a prone position, flat on my stomach, putting the source of bullets directly behind me.

40:19.316 --> 40:22.218
[SPEAKER_05]: Almost in unison, the same thing happened from the east.

40:22.898 --> 40:34.204
[SPEAKER_05]: As Tracer flashes and bullets cracked over the top of me from the opposite direction, with waves of bullets criss-crossing directly above and beside me, I was the meaty part of a crossfire sandwich.

40:35.485 --> 40:39.927
[SPEAKER_05]: In an instant, I lost control of the situation and I was no longer able to do anything.

40:40.817 --> 40:43.939
[SPEAKER_05]: because I had done nothing to that point I was now exposed.

40:44.660 --> 40:51.705
[SPEAKER_05]: Being the stellar marine he was, Moe constantly mirrored my movements, so he was right there when I needed him and the radios.

40:52.105 --> 41:01.191
[SPEAKER_05]: Having followed my cues that day, Moe was now in the exact predicament I was, exposed in an open area, pinned to the ground, and unable to move.

41:02.152 --> 41:04.674
[SPEAKER_05]: my inaction had put him in danger.

41:05.275 --> 41:13.001
[SPEAKER_05]: Doc was already 30 feet ahead of me, he had pushed further up after the initial volley to get more to a more advantageous and protected location.

41:13.482 --> 41:21.289
[SPEAKER_05]: Now he was safe positioned at a huge, behind a huge tree and kneeling in a small irrigation ditch that gave him cover from enemy fire.

41:21.809 --> 41:26.273
[SPEAKER_05]: He was frantically gesturing and screaming for me to move to his position.

41:29.659 --> 41:30.765
[SPEAKER_05]: How did you get your guys into it?

41:33.497 --> 42:00.247
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, this is like the beginning of chapter one and it sets the theme for every chapter which is maybe one of the hardest parts for me was to write this book was there are no like hero storage in this book there's no story about me doing something right and it was just forcing myself to look back on the things that I learned the lessons I wanted to teach and they all came from like really bad decisions and you know the the precursor of this giant

42:01.756 --> 42:04.279
[SPEAKER_03]: I would call it a firefight, but I wasn't doing anything.

42:04.299 --> 42:05.160
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just laying there.

42:05.180 --> 42:05.921
[SPEAKER_03]: It was pretty brutal.

42:06.982 --> 42:11.388
[SPEAKER_05]: And by the way, I read an excerpt, like, get the book and you'll get the full story totally.

42:11.888 --> 42:14.311
[SPEAKER_03]: But the precursor of that was like a mortar attack.

42:14.652 --> 42:17.255
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know this as well as I do, I mean, we do move them into contact.

42:17.956 --> 42:20.419
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, there was always a mortar attack.

42:21.365 --> 42:28.589
[SPEAKER_03]: And I convinced myself that, you know, that mortar attack, which the mortgage pilot at hundreds of meters away, which might as well have been miles away.

42:28.609 --> 42:39.595
[SPEAKER_03]: It was just kind of almost in my mind, meaningless, is I had been presented of a few minutes earlier in this situation that when we had taken this incoming fire, I'll be at like indirect and inaccurate.

42:40.115 --> 42:46.578
[SPEAKER_03]: What I should have done was like, I don't know, basically, leadership stuff, like called in the airplane, called talked to the between, the leader, like done things.

42:47.579 --> 42:48.940
[SPEAKER_03]: And what I did was nothing.

42:49.620 --> 43:04.470
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's a bunch of detail about what why I did nothing, but all of it was like there's nothing I can do about this mortar attack right like we always get mortar so there's nothing to do and so if there's nothing to do you do nothing which is

43:06.387 --> 43:08.469
[SPEAKER_03]: the worst thing to do, which is a terrible thing.

43:08.509 --> 43:12.193
[SPEAKER_03]: And here I am like doing nothing and then that situation deteriorates.

43:12.213 --> 43:14.896
[SPEAKER_03]: And by the time I come to the conclusion, like, oh, this is a really bad situation.

43:14.916 --> 43:15.556
[SPEAKER_03]: I should do something.

43:16.117 --> 43:16.597
[SPEAKER_03]: It's too late.

43:17.578 --> 43:18.199
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm pinned down.

43:18.680 --> 43:19.901
[SPEAKER_03]: There's more detail in that, obviously.

43:19.941 --> 43:21.102
[SPEAKER_03]: But it was it was bad.

43:21.382 --> 43:24.145
[SPEAKER_03]: And in fact, I'm lucky to be here talking about it.

43:24.225 --> 43:25.507
[SPEAKER_03]: But how bad that situation was.

43:26.467 --> 43:36.096
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just remember laying there just swelling with regret like why didn't I just ask myself like why didn't I do anything and and in retrospect It's because I knew this was a problem.

43:36.136 --> 43:36.857
[SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't control.

43:37.638 --> 43:46.246
[SPEAKER_03]: I was sure of it So I didn't do anything and that means the problem got infinitely worse way more dangerous and then I was not putting other people at risk so the takeaway from that was like

43:47.507 --> 43:47.727
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude.

43:49.149 --> 43:51.311
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're dealt with a problem, lead your way through it.

43:51.951 --> 43:54.313
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no guarantee that you're going to control every aspect of the outcome.

43:54.333 --> 43:55.274
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not even the point.

43:56.075 --> 44:00.639
[SPEAKER_03]: But doing nothing ended up being almost like costing me in a couple of people that are lives.

44:00.779 --> 44:02.781
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm lucky to be able to tell the story and I wrote about it.

44:02.941 --> 44:06.885
[SPEAKER_03]: But every problem is only leadership problem.

44:07.285 --> 44:09.087
[SPEAKER_03]: And you got to lead your way through if you want to be successful.

44:10.960 --> 44:39.926
[SPEAKER_05]: I had one of the elements in Romani who's going out and going out to like Northern Romani and taking a like a rural presence patrol and they were kind of showing me their route and you know I said hey well it looks like you're going to go you know crosses big open area and he's like well yeah you know if we would have tried skirt there so we take a really long time and blah blah blah and plus it's not that good to train so we think the best thing to do is just go across the open area and I said

44:40.326 --> 44:40.606
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

44:40.766 --> 44:42.447
[SPEAKER_05]: I said, yeah, you know what?

44:43.927 --> 44:44.727
[SPEAKER_05]: I said, do me a favor.

44:45.127 --> 44:51.409
[SPEAKER_05]: Like when you get to that open area, keep some guys in the tree line and, you know, the other guys can move across that way.

44:51.429 --> 44:59.371
[SPEAKER_05]: If they get contacted, you'll have guys, you'll be able to cover and move out of that situation and, um, turn off the exact thing happened.

44:59.411 --> 45:03.452
[SPEAKER_05]: And sure enough, they had really good suppressor fire and we're able to get the guys out of the middle of the field.

45:03.492 --> 45:04.672
[SPEAKER_05]: But very similar

45:06.934 --> 45:18.288
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the pre-emptive ownership which you talk about in the book for like okay wait a second as a leader going into the situation What can I control do I need to get every one of my guys in a exposed area right now?

45:18.468 --> 45:19.550
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I don't actually have to do that

45:20.668 --> 45:21.890
[SPEAKER_05]: I can, there's no rules.

45:22.410 --> 45:23.531
[SPEAKER_05]: I can leave guys back over here.

45:23.551 --> 45:27.556
[SPEAKER_05]: I can put some guys on this little berm, get a little high ground, be able to cover for their movement.

45:27.576 --> 45:35.625
[SPEAKER_05]: And unless you just say, well, if we get mortars, because that group actually started with a mortar attack, you know what, we're gonna get mortars, nothing you really don't do about it.

45:35.785 --> 45:36.046
[SPEAKER_05]: Well.

45:37.562 --> 45:38.904
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe there's a little bit you can do.

45:38.924 --> 45:51.758
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're definitely is and that that story is like the first in the book And it was it is a hurdle for me as I first started writing and at some point I just kind of just cleared the hurdle like all right This is what it's gonna be.

45:51.798 --> 45:56.182
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just I have to write a story about something I'm not proud of I'm kind of embarrassed by it was a huge mistake

45:56.803 --> 46:24.077
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's where I learned the lesson, or to your point earlier, that's where that lesson really stuck in my, like, okay, that's when it really crystallizes or solidified and I had to recognize I was going to write a book that just tells a bunch of stories that I'm, I'm kind of an idiot and it sucks, but that's the moment that I, that really, and from that moment on in my life, I can tell you, I reflect back on that constantly when something happens, I don't make that mistake and I lead.

46:24.657 --> 46:30.582
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't always do the right thing, but I am able to recognize it's better than sucking mud.

46:30.803 --> 46:31.864
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well that's, yeah.

46:31.944 --> 46:34.026
[SPEAKER_03]: So, good time, sorry.

46:34.226 --> 46:36.328
[SPEAKER_05]: Give us real quick two liners and how you got out of it.

46:38.867 --> 46:39.988
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, maybe a 12-word dude.

46:40.829 --> 46:42.331
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm laying on the ground.

46:42.351 --> 46:50.579
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm looking at Mo, my ready-operator He's looking at me and I go through like 50 different iterations of what I should do and everyone is I Calculate I'm like you're gonna die.

46:50.619 --> 46:58.887
[SPEAKER_03]: Can't put your head up can't we burn like you we were like you could not move And as the bolts are hitting in the dirt between us you can feel

46:59.828 --> 47:04.350
[SPEAKER_03]: You know this like you can feel bullets movement like shifting around volume of fire You can feel where it's going.

47:04.370 --> 47:08.992
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going left going right going up and it started to shift towards me And I would say it probably got like three feet.

47:09.012 --> 47:09.552
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, okay.

47:09.832 --> 47:14.754
[SPEAKER_03]: This is it and I I I'm 100% sure I'm gonna die and I kind of drift off.

47:15.835 --> 47:21.957
[SPEAKER_03]: I start laughing a little bit like like that like that Like you got to be kidding me man kind of juggling.

47:21.977 --> 47:22.638
[SPEAKER_03]: I say it out loud

47:23.802 --> 47:28.306
[SPEAKER_03]: As it shifts to my left arm, the bullets you could feel it shift up maybe two or three feet.

47:28.346 --> 47:37.174
[SPEAKER_03]: And what I equate, if you can picture how far away these guys probably were shooting at us, the guy holding the machine gun like probably leaned back like two or three inches.

47:37.434 --> 47:43.419
[SPEAKER_03]: And it raised the trajectory of the bullet, a foot or two, based on the distance, went up directly over my head.

47:44.500 --> 47:52.409
[SPEAKER_03]: and then started hitting the dirt to my right, and there is no explanation other than it's clearly beyond my control of that happen.

47:53.190 --> 48:01.480
[SPEAKER_03]: And I looked at Mo, he kind of looks at me, I look up at Doc, and we both got up and ran the probably 20-30 feet that was there, dove into this ditch.

48:02.421 --> 48:16.092
[SPEAKER_03]: There is no reason, there is no reason I should be here telling the story other than the divine intervention of those bullets and that shooter, lifting a trajectory up and over my body, giving me another 10 seconds to get to cover which I did.

48:16.572 --> 48:24.198
[SPEAKER_03]: By the time I'm in the ditch, I'm laying on my back, most on top of me were like bear hugging each other, bullets going directly over the top of him, missing him by a foot or so.

48:25.079 --> 48:28.382
[SPEAKER_03]: That time frame window, I can't account for other

48:30.043 --> 48:31.065
[SPEAKER_03]: that they on my control now.

48:31.725 --> 48:34.288
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I can actually completely attribute it.

48:34.389 --> 48:37.893
[SPEAKER_05]: That's freaking poor muzzle control by the enemy machine gunner.

48:37.953 --> 48:41.998
[SPEAKER_05]: Because you know when you shoot a machine gunner, when you shoot a machine gun, it starts to go up.

48:42.098 --> 48:45.942
[SPEAKER_05]: And so that guy just had poor and even even when you're a really good machine gunner.

48:46.827 --> 48:54.193
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like you lean into it, but it's really hard, even for the best machine gunner to keep that thing like completely dialed.

48:55.234 --> 48:59.557
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's gonna, it's just, you kind of have to let it go in order to force it back down.

48:59.597 --> 49:03.541
[SPEAKER_05]: So you got that little benefit of his poor muzzle control at that moment.

49:03.801 --> 49:04.942
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad he was so bad.

49:07.003 --> 49:09.445
[SPEAKER_05]: Fast forward a little bit of getting to the principle here to the lesson.

49:10.305 --> 49:10.925
[SPEAKER_05]: We need to lead.

49:11.245 --> 49:14.147
[SPEAKER_05]: Even when circumstances feel completely beyond our control, we still must act.

49:14.307 --> 49:20.971
[SPEAKER_05]: Only then will we be positioned to exert our influence, which will drive us closer to determining the outcome.

49:21.031 --> 49:28.514
[SPEAKER_05]: By leading, we can overcome the feeling of victimization and instead understand the range of options within our power.

49:28.875 --> 49:33.237
[SPEAKER_05]: By taking control of our preparation, reaction, and response to problems, we become a leader.

49:34.661 --> 49:42.087
[SPEAKER_05]: When we reframe our mindset and see situations through the lens of leadership, we understand that things don't have to remain as they are.

49:43.709 --> 49:50.471
[SPEAKER_05]: We can anticipate the challenges we may face, assess what our options are to solve them and then take action in execute.

49:50.991 --> 50:05.414
[SPEAKER_05]: It can be scary to accept the responsibility of leadership because our actions or inaction may endanger others and worsen the situation, but good leaders, those who choose to step up and act are rewarded with the most critical component the solution.

50:07.675 --> 50:11.176
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and we were recently talking about

50:12.905 --> 50:21.391
[SPEAKER_05]: this fact that there's, you say that you hate things don't have to remain as they are, and there are things that are going to remain as they are.

50:22.632 --> 50:29.457
[SPEAKER_05]: And usually that, the number of things that are going to remain as they are that you cannot change, use that's a pretty small number of things.

50:30.398 --> 50:32.561
[SPEAKER_05]: But the other things merely enough to accept that.

50:32.881 --> 50:38.348
[SPEAKER_05]: Just don't accept it like we're just not doing that Now look does that can you change the terrain?

50:38.849 --> 50:42.313
[SPEAKER_05]: No, you can't change the terrain the mountains gonna be the mountain But do you have to go over the mountain?

50:42.593 --> 50:47.500
[SPEAKER_05]: No, you don't have to you can go around it You can you can call for fire on the other side of mouth.

50:47.520 --> 50:49.061
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a bunch of other ways to solve that problems

50:51.383 --> 51:14.820
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, so then, like I said, like an extreme ownership of the dichotomy of leadership, we now roll into like a business example, which is so such a good move, because I think that the combat examples, because there's so much such high consequences, they really make you feel it, but in the business examples, allow people to get the context that

51:18.863 --> 51:28.909
[SPEAKER_05]: So they feel it from the combat example, but they see it in their own world, from the business example, which is a pretty epic way to convey a principle.

51:30.870 --> 51:39.495
[SPEAKER_05]: This one starts off with, and I don't know if you recognize this one, you're doing this, but a lot of your real world application your business starts with a quote from someone in the, someone in the scene.

51:40.415 --> 51:46.602
[SPEAKER_05]: This one starts off with they don't care and and it's just classic, you know, you talk to some leader into a call.

51:46.862 --> 51:47.623
[SPEAKER_05]: What's going on with your team?

51:47.703 --> 51:48.263
[SPEAKER_05]: They don't care.

51:48.744 --> 51:49.385
[SPEAKER_05]: What's wrong with it?

51:49.425 --> 51:49.885
[SPEAKER_05]: They don't care.

51:50.246 --> 51:54.930
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just a classic quote to start off with and I'm sure there's a millions of people that read this.

51:55.291 --> 51:57.153
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, I know who exactly we were talking about.

51:57.953 --> 51:58.913
[SPEAKER_05]: Fastware was a little bit.

51:58.973 --> 52:05.095
[SPEAKER_05]: I was working with the utilities company based in the Midwest that had hired us to train their team They were sizable had a good reputation by industry standards.

52:05.495 --> 52:06.595
[SPEAKER_05]: This being a company town.

52:06.635 --> 52:23.779
[SPEAKER_05]: They're local war first work force was robust Many employees were second and third generation and some had been with the company for decades These were hardworking folks doing unappreciated work that literally kept the lights on over the past three years accident rates had started to creep up It was an unsettling shift after the previous 10 years

52:24.399 --> 52:25.660
[SPEAKER_05]: had been the safest on record.

52:25.981 --> 52:30.145
[SPEAKER_05]: Senior Management noticed the unfortunate trend that wanted to stop it before it got worse.

52:31.026 --> 52:33.468
[SPEAKER_05]: Then the recent near fatal incident that occurred.

52:33.968 --> 52:40.215
[SPEAKER_05]: A newer, young employee was fortunate to have survived a fall that led to a broken bones and a stint in the hospital.

52:40.315 --> 52:47.962
[SPEAKER_05]: Thus, I found myself in front of Ken, a manager who had a few incidents happened on his watch and was struggling with team morale.

52:49.183 --> 52:50.586
[SPEAKER_05]: This new generation is all the same.

52:50.606 --> 52:51.728
[SPEAKER_05]: They're on their phones constantly.

52:51.748 --> 52:54.011
[SPEAKER_05]: They show up and expect things to magically happen.

52:54.071 --> 52:58.579
[SPEAKER_05]: It's nuts Can continue to don't get me started on their work ethic.

52:58.960 --> 53:00.262
[SPEAKER_05]: They don't care about anything

53:02.283 --> 53:19.893
[SPEAKER_05]: And again, what is Ken doing in that scenario is it's them, it's them, and it's nothing to do with them and what you are able to convey to him in the story is actually Ken, it's not about what problems they have, it's a leadership problem, and you help them solve it.

53:20.313 --> 53:21.794
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's what this Beck has focused on with.

53:22.774 --> 53:27.917
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, next chapter, humility is the most important attribute as a leader.

53:28.429 --> 53:32.470
[SPEAKER_05]: This possibly is my favorite chapter in the book.

53:33.150 --> 53:33.730
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it's got one of it.

53:33.750 --> 53:35.631
[SPEAKER_05]: It's definitely has, I think, my favorite line in the book.

53:36.311 --> 53:52.095
[SPEAKER_05]: So, it starts off with this word, two, the number two, and you go on to explain that that's how many pilot slots there are, because when you join the Marine Corps or any military branch, you just didn't say, hey, I want to be an F-18 fighter pilot here to put me in the program.

53:52.375 --> 53:56.496
[SPEAKER_05]: No, you got to jump through so many hoops and wickets

53:59.597 --> 54:08.486
[SPEAKER_05]: And you're in a class of 250 people, 250 people, and there's two slots, two slots to be a fighter pilot.

54:08.506 --> 54:10.428
[SPEAKER_05]: A fighter pilot or just a pilot, just go to flight school.

54:10.549 --> 54:10.909
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.

54:10.989 --> 54:12.250
[SPEAKER_05]: Just to get into flight school.

54:12.270 --> 54:12.951
[SPEAKER_05]: Do the wickets?

54:13.171 --> 54:14.292
[SPEAKER_05]: You and I sat down one night.

54:14.753 --> 54:17.075
[SPEAKER_05]: We were having, or one night, we were eating dinner, having lunch or something.

54:17.115 --> 54:19.157
[SPEAKER_05]: But I remember we were talking about the wickets.

54:19.858 --> 54:25.082
[SPEAKER_05]: that you got to get through to be a fighter pilot and F-18, single-seed fighter pilot and the Marine Corps, those are some freaking wickets.

54:25.562 --> 54:29.165
[SPEAKER_05]: And you're like, well, you know the seals have like, oh no, no, there's not as many wickets.

54:29.465 --> 54:30.186
[SPEAKER_05]: There's just not.

54:31.047 --> 54:34.769
[SPEAKER_05]: The wickets are insane to get to this slot that you're in.

54:34.869 --> 54:37.612
[SPEAKER_05]: And some luck, because sometimes it's like, oh yeah, there's no slots.

54:37.752 --> 54:38.993
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't need any F-18 pilots right now.

54:39.333 --> 54:40.994
[SPEAKER_05]: You're going to fly this other aircraft.

54:41.014 --> 54:41.554
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the way it is.

54:42.595 --> 54:47.820
[SPEAKER_05]: So you, you know, you join the Marine Corps, which what do you get when you join the Marine Corps?

54:47.860 --> 54:50.603
[SPEAKER_05]: What's the guarantee that what can they guarantee when you join the Marine Corps?

54:50.823 --> 54:51.704
[SPEAKER_05]: You're gonna be a Marine.

54:52.044 --> 54:53.105
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what you're gonna get.

54:53.125 --> 54:55.367
[SPEAKER_05]: And if that ain't enough for you, we don't really need you.

54:56.128 --> 54:57.329
[SPEAKER_05]: So you break it down.

54:57.629 --> 55:00.031
[SPEAKER_05]: You go to OCS, you go to the the basic school.

55:00.051 --> 55:02.454
[SPEAKER_05]: 250 Lieutenant's broken into six battoons roughly 40 people.

55:04.155 --> 55:08.998
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, there's some people that have, I guess they have like a flight contract.

55:09.658 --> 55:11.699
[SPEAKER_05]: So, they get guaranteed.

55:11.719 --> 55:14.121
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, you're going to be marine and you're going to be a pilot of some kind.

55:14.541 --> 55:16.522
[SPEAKER_05]: You're going to at least go to good and go to flight school.

55:16.622 --> 55:17.022
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's right.

55:17.282 --> 55:18.343
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's going to get a flight school.

55:18.423 --> 55:18.543
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

55:18.623 --> 55:21.645
[SPEAKER_05]: That's kind of like my contract to join the Navy was you.

55:22.245 --> 55:24.807
[SPEAKER_05]: You're going to get, you're not going to be a seal.

55:25.248 --> 55:26.389
[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't even, you're going to go to Buds.

55:26.609 --> 55:30.412
[SPEAKER_05]: It was a contract guarantee that you're going to get to take the test to go to Buds.

55:30.472 --> 55:30.652
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

55:30.993 --> 55:33.555
[SPEAKER_05]: That was the guarantee that doesn't mean shit, by the way.

55:33.615 --> 55:34.596
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what that is.

55:34.636 --> 55:38.679
[SPEAKER_05]: So some guys had that, you weren't, you weren't one of those people.

55:39.100 --> 55:42.723
[SPEAKER_05]: So you were just straight up, hey, I'm going in the Marine Corps to be an officer.

55:42.783 --> 55:42.963
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

55:43.583 --> 55:45.585
[SPEAKER_05]: No other stipulations around your contract.

55:45.765 --> 55:45.965
[SPEAKER_03]: No.

55:46.166 --> 55:47.367
[SPEAKER_05]: That's freaking ridiculous.

55:48.107 --> 55:50.548
[SPEAKER_05]: So, TBS, you're assessing three different categories.

55:50.869 --> 55:54.651
[SPEAKER_05]: The three different categories are military skills, physical fitness, and leadership.

55:55.751 --> 56:01.714
[SPEAKER_05]: So the military skills is like cleaning rifle, shooting, right?

56:02.795 --> 56:05.676
[SPEAKER_05]: Radio frequencies into or you kind of go through some of that stuff.

56:06.317 --> 56:07.777
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's a military stuff.

56:09.439 --> 56:10.500
[SPEAKER_05]: The next one's physical training.

56:10.760 --> 56:14.644
[SPEAKER_05]: Obviously, we know that is the obstacle course, combat conditioning course, endurance course.

56:14.664 --> 56:28.417
[SPEAKER_05]: These are things that you're going to get graded on and then the final one is leadership acumen and the way they judge this is you're getting put in leadership positions and you might be a you might be in charge of a four person team you might be in charge of a 250 person company, but you're going to be in charge and then they're going to grade you.

56:29.910 --> 56:32.853
[SPEAKER_05]: And everything that you're doing is getting graded all the time.

56:33.253 --> 56:34.294
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is the environment you're in.

56:34.494 --> 56:38.138
[SPEAKER_05]: And by the way, you were working at Target, like six months prior.

56:38.238 --> 56:40.220
[SPEAKER_05]: You were working at freaking Target as a stockboy.

56:40.240 --> 56:40.440
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.

56:41.321 --> 56:45.425
[SPEAKER_05]: So, and you have no guarantee whatsoever, which is freaking crazy as far as I'm concerned.

56:46.045 --> 56:53.591
[SPEAKER_05]: So you're getting judged, and then you also talk about this, part of the leadership grade.

56:53.811 --> 56:59.136
[SPEAKER_05]: At TBS, a unique element of our leadership grade came compliments of our peers.

56:59.476 --> 57:03.199
[SPEAKER_05]: Twice during the course, each lieutenant filled out an evaluation and assigned a score.

57:03.539 --> 57:05.120
[SPEAKER_05]: to every other member in the Paltoon.

57:05.441 --> 57:07.963
[SPEAKER_05]: This grade directly affected our overall leadership standing.

57:08.083 --> 57:11.746
[SPEAKER_05]: I knew this subjective ranking was part of our assessment, and I wasn't concerned at all.

57:12.167 --> 57:16.370
[SPEAKER_05]: In fact, I was looking forward to my first peer review debrief from CUB.

57:16.430 --> 57:17.792
[SPEAKER_05]: This is your company commander.

57:17.812 --> 57:18.572
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, this guy CUB.

57:19.253 --> 57:20.254
[SPEAKER_05]: He was going to be impressed.

57:21.055 --> 57:22.116
[SPEAKER_05]: And I waited his praise.

57:22.396 --> 57:23.797
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't wait to see what they say about me.

57:23.837 --> 57:25.318
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought as I walked into CUB's office.

57:25.919 --> 57:28.721
[SPEAKER_05]: So again, just to set this up, you're doing a peer evaluation.

57:29.462 --> 57:34.046
[SPEAKER_05]: And as you do this peer evaluation, you're thinking about, well this is just being another bonus for you.

57:34.066 --> 57:36.347
[SPEAKER_05]: I know what my ranking is, so I'm excited.

57:36.367 --> 57:37.648
[SPEAKER_05]: Because you're ranking is what at this point?

57:37.869 --> 57:38.389
[SPEAKER_05]: Eight out of 250.

57:39.170 --> 57:41.631
[SPEAKER_05]: So you're eight out of 250, this could be a nice little bump.

57:43.653 --> 57:46.395
[SPEAKER_05]: Cub began by telling me that my grades were excellent.

57:46.816 --> 57:52.520
[SPEAKER_05]: That I currently ranked among the top of the entire company and that he felt as though I'd make a fine Marine one day.

57:53.341 --> 57:55.222
[SPEAKER_05]: As anticipated, I felt great.

57:56.623 --> 58:00.767
[SPEAKER_05]: I want to read you what I think is the best summary of what your platoon thinks.

58:01.007 --> 58:03.409
[SPEAKER_05]: He said, keep it coming, I thought.

58:05.110 --> 58:08.553
[SPEAKER_05]: Lieutenant Burke would be one of the best marines in the platoon.

58:09.734 --> 58:11.696
[SPEAKER_05]: If he didn't already think he was.

58:12.897 --> 58:13.358
[SPEAKER_05]: So there you go.

58:13.378 --> 58:14.679
[SPEAKER_05]: That's my favorite line from the book.

58:16.180 --> 58:16.901
[SPEAKER_05]: That had this thing.

58:17.521 --> 58:21.925
[SPEAKER_05]: Totally blindsided too, totally totally, totally blindsided.

58:24.231 --> 58:25.972
[SPEAKER_05]: Self-awareness is zero.

58:27.532 --> 58:29.312
[SPEAKER_03]: That's always the secret of negative.

58:29.532 --> 58:44.896
[SPEAKER_05]: If you could like have a negative score of like you were on the opposite like that's where I was God, that is a scary thing and you know from the aviation world Like not knowing that you're off track or not knowing that you're off course.

58:44.936 --> 58:46.997
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not knowing that you're losing altitude like

58:47.977 --> 58:49.298
[SPEAKER_05]: Not knowing that you're losing speed.

58:49.338 --> 58:50.758
[SPEAKER_05]: Those are those are excessive death.

58:51.019 --> 58:51.339
[SPEAKER_03]: All of them.

58:51.559 --> 58:58.102
[SPEAKER_03]: Everyone is you're a hundred percent right and and I look back and like I mean you and I've known each other for a long time.

58:58.122 --> 58:59.183
[SPEAKER_03]: We've known each other really well.

59:00.308 --> 59:12.653
[SPEAKER_03]: I am 21, in this, like this is 21, just picture 21 year old Dave Burke, and the concept of self-awareness wasn't even in my head, just the concept of it.

59:12.753 --> 59:15.694
[SPEAKER_03]: So forget about like being realistic.

59:16.295 --> 59:26.079
[SPEAKER_03]: It was so far when he said that, I mean, you could not have been more blindsided and shocked and so I was like, uh, uh, uh,

59:26.699 --> 59:29.521
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, my ear started ringing, like, I started sweating.

59:29.621 --> 59:32.162
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it was brutal for me.

59:32.522 --> 59:33.183
[SPEAKER_03]: It was awful.

59:34.083 --> 59:41.748
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's it's such a difficult thing that self-awareness thing because it's horrible because you don't know it's happening.

59:42.008 --> 59:44.049
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, you're just completely unaware.

59:44.810 --> 59:47.131
[SPEAKER_05]: I've always been very suspect of myself.

59:47.731 --> 59:52.074
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, like, oh, and even, you know, leadership strategy and tactics, same thing happened with me.

59:54.115 --> 59:57.616
[SPEAKER_05]: My platoon chiefs are like, hey dude, you're ostracizing yourself from the platoon.

59:58.516 --> 59:59.857
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm kind of like, what are you talking about?

59:59.877 --> 01:00:00.797
[SPEAKER_05]: Dude, I'm hard to call it.

01:00:00.817 --> 01:00:01.757
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you doing?

01:00:01.797 --> 01:00:02.698
[SPEAKER_05]: What are you doing?

01:00:03.118 --> 01:00:03.538
[SPEAKER_05]: What are you doing?

01:00:03.558 --> 01:00:04.618
[SPEAKER_05]: What are we talking about here?

01:00:05.919 --> 01:00:11.440
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's what makes it so difficult when people get caught in this vacuum where they have no self-awareness.

01:00:12.341 --> 01:00:16.242
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's very sad to watch and very disturbing.

01:00:16.602 --> 01:00:17.722
[SPEAKER_05]: You go on to talk about it here.

01:00:17.782 --> 01:00:19.343
[SPEAKER_05]: Self-awareness can be a bitter pill.

01:00:19.963 --> 01:00:26.546
[SPEAKER_05]: For the first time in my life, I realized my ego had become a problem and it was time to become better acquainted with the word humility.

01:00:27.026 --> 01:00:33.828
[SPEAKER_05]: I needed to reassess what it meant to be part of the team, putting myself and my wins aside and putting others first.

01:00:35.129 --> 01:00:44.012
[SPEAKER_05]: And you can go on to say quickly, my behavior change instead of being frustrated with the poor performers because you go get the books, you can get all these details like you were the guy that was like, oh you don't know you don't know how to do this cool.

01:00:44.512 --> 01:00:45.333
[SPEAKER_05]: Good luck on the test.

01:00:45.533 --> 01:00:45.713
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:00:46.053 --> 01:00:46.693
[SPEAKER_05]: Instead of being like, oh you

01:00:50.123 --> 01:00:56.433
[SPEAKER_03]: your losses were my wins, you know what I mean like and I what I took on which is this like almost like

01:00:57.713 --> 01:01:00.414
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I was the judge of whether you belong here.

01:01:00.434 --> 01:01:02.795
[SPEAKER_03]: So we went and did some skill, some exercise.

01:01:03.395 --> 01:01:05.036
[SPEAKER_03]: And you weren't as good as me.

01:01:05.296 --> 01:01:06.497
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, oh, you're not a very good.

01:01:06.777 --> 01:01:07.657
[SPEAKER_03]: You must not be very good.

01:01:07.677 --> 01:01:08.678
[SPEAKER_03]: You might not even belong here.

01:01:08.718 --> 01:01:15.000
[SPEAKER_03]: And I had this error of judgment of like, if you didn't meet my personal standard, you were unsat.

01:01:15.881 --> 01:01:19.062
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was like, my little running mates, my boy is like, we were tight.

01:01:19.082 --> 01:01:20.223
[SPEAKER_03]: We were all the square-to-way guys.

01:01:20.503 --> 01:01:25.765
[SPEAKER_03]: And instead of looking at it like, oh, that person's struggling needs some help, I was just like, oh, that person doesn't belong here.

01:01:26.851 --> 01:01:34.657
[SPEAKER_03]: And like I said, like, it's so heart, it's so embarrassing to write, this is, this is who I was.

01:01:34.737 --> 01:01:36.859
[SPEAKER_03]: This is, that's how I thought that was my behavior.

01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:38.460
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank God.

01:01:38.980 --> 01:01:42.863
[SPEAKER_03]: Cub, Cub Marion sits down as like, and, and slaps around across the face.

01:01:42.923 --> 01:01:46.706
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, hey, man, you have to change the way you see the world and yourself in it.

01:01:47.767 --> 01:01:51.950
[SPEAKER_03]: And had I not had that conversation, I don't know where I would have gone, but it would not have been good.

01:01:53.628 --> 01:01:55.210
[SPEAKER_05]: on a podcast five.

01:01:56.511 --> 01:02:00.474
[SPEAKER_05]: I read a counseling that I gave to a young seal, lieutenant.

01:02:01.635 --> 01:02:02.916
[SPEAKER_05]: And it was awful.

01:02:03.016 --> 01:02:07.100
[SPEAKER_05]: Just like the most straightforward counseling, listen, your ego's giant.

01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:09.341
[SPEAKER_05]: No one likes you, the whole nine yards.

01:02:09.882 --> 01:02:10.643
[SPEAKER_05]: He got fired.

01:02:10.783 --> 01:02:11.884
[SPEAKER_05]: Like he eventually got fired.

01:02:11.904 --> 01:02:19.970
[SPEAKER_05]: He just, despite me just telling him the exact same thing, he just thought, oh, well, looks like Jocco's wrong, too.

01:02:20.151 --> 01:02:21.071
[SPEAKER_05]: Like everyone's just wrong.

01:02:22.092 --> 01:02:25.933
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I have a bad fit fitness report bad evaluation.

01:02:26.433 --> 01:02:30.655
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm getting bad feedback from the training to the attachment They're all obviously wrong.

01:02:30.775 --> 01:02:30.975
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, now.

01:02:31.015 --> 01:02:31.795
[SPEAKER_05]: Jockel wants to talk me.

01:02:31.915 --> 01:02:32.995
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, Jockel is wrong too.

01:02:33.335 --> 01:02:33.855
[SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?

01:02:34.076 --> 01:02:38.677
[SPEAKER_05]: Like it's crazy people But the lack of self awareness was epic and this is when

01:02:39.177 --> 01:02:58.485
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, this would be like you're losing altitude and your instruments are going you're losing altitude and you're losing altitude and you're losing altitude and you're just like I don't think that instrument is right And then whatever the secondary backup instrument says, you know, you're danger danger danger like oh, that thing's wrong too And then finally your wingman says Dave pull up pull up pull up and you go dude, what's wrong with him?

01:02:58.525 --> 01:02:59.085
[SPEAKER_05]: What an idiot?

01:03:00.706 --> 01:03:01.867
[SPEAKER_05]: just ignoring it all.

01:03:02.788 --> 01:03:06.430
[SPEAKER_05]: But luckily, like I said, you say quickly my behavior changed.

01:03:06.450 --> 01:03:09.753
[SPEAKER_05]: Instead of being frustrated with poor performers, I tried to find ways to help them.

01:03:10.053 --> 01:03:12.495
[SPEAKER_05]: I would carry a heavier weapon on patrol.

01:03:12.535 --> 01:03:14.496
[SPEAKER_05]: If someone could manage it, I cleaned extra gear.

01:03:15.077 --> 01:03:20.761
[SPEAKER_05]: After a week in the field, if my squad was falling behind, I reviewed questions prepare someone to unsure of the material for a test.

01:03:20.861 --> 01:03:22.282
[SPEAKER_05]: So you became a team player.

01:03:23.513 --> 01:03:30.483
[SPEAKER_05]: Two months later, fast forward a little two months later, the second round of peer reviews reflected that I was more humble, likable, and a better teammate.

01:03:31.024 --> 01:03:39.075
[SPEAKER_05]: The changing me had been measured and noticeable, and not just by others, I felt better about how I conducted myself as a Marine.

01:03:40.697 --> 01:03:49.322
[SPEAKER_05]: There was a tremendous satisfaction in being of service to someone other than myself, and that shift in attitude ended up giving me more than I could have anticipated.

01:03:49.342 --> 01:03:53.605
[SPEAKER_05]: There is no greater pride than seeing someone you've helped succeed.

01:03:57.607 --> 01:04:05.849
[SPEAKER_05]: a few weeks before graduation every lieutenant in half a company lined up according to rank to select their MOS as the eighth marine to step up to the board.

01:04:06.309 --> 01:04:10.810
[SPEAKER_05]: Cub shook my hand, looked me in the eye and said, congratulations Lieutenant Burke.

01:04:11.310 --> 01:04:14.331
[SPEAKER_05]: You've earned your shot at the cockpit of an F-18 Hornet.

01:04:14.511 --> 01:04:16.672
[SPEAKER_05]: You're going to Pensacola to start flight training.

01:04:17.612 --> 01:04:20.472
[SPEAKER_05]: I'd pulled the second pilot billet for my class.

01:04:21.093 --> 01:04:21.953
[SPEAKER_05]: I was two of two.

01:04:23.514 --> 01:04:27.057
[SPEAKER_05]: And the reason that is you're number eight, but not everybody wants to be a pilot.

01:04:27.237 --> 01:04:33.142
[SPEAKER_03]: So some guys are had air slots or whatever, like thank God the math, you know, of the 250, I don't know what the final math was.

01:04:33.223 --> 01:04:46.134
[SPEAKER_03]: It's still some crazy number, but they're funny guys are already going and funny guys shockingly didn't want, they wanted to be infantry officers or whatever, so, and you know, they fail the flight physical, they don't have the eyes, you know, there's a weeding out process.

01:04:46.174 --> 01:04:46.735
[SPEAKER_03]: But ultimately,

01:04:48.056 --> 01:05:09.515
[SPEAKER_03]: Even the two is a small number, I mean, like to get that second slot was a huge day for who got the first slot David DC Anderson Dave Anderson my roommate who Shockingly two guys in the in the company at or the two the first two guys were were me and my roommate Dave Anderson was he what number was he was he number one two three four

01:05:10.920 --> 01:05:14.283
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, a little memory, but like, he was probably like five, something great.

01:05:14.303 --> 01:05:16.765
[SPEAKER_03]: Like he was just a couple ahead of me at the time.

01:05:16.905 --> 01:05:30.676
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and I remember there's a little, I didn't write that in the book, but there's still like three weeks of TBS after you get your spot and my rank, like plummeted from like eight down to like 24th or something like that, because I'm like, I got that here slot, you know, the complacency chapter is next.

01:05:30.836 --> 01:05:36.761
[SPEAKER_03]: But ultimately, like when I got that, like, it was a huge burden lifted and I might not have put quite the same effort in.

01:05:36.821 --> 01:05:38.202
[SPEAKER_03]: So I still finish as like a, you know,

01:05:39.703 --> 01:05:45.766
[SPEAKER_03]: I did just English graduate, but I was like eight, like, and he was like fifth, and both of those kind of like tapered off a little bit at the end there.

01:05:46.287 --> 01:05:46.887
[SPEAKER_03]: I got mine.

01:05:46.927 --> 01:05:47.427
[SPEAKER_03]: I got mine.

01:05:48.448 --> 01:05:51.389
[SPEAKER_03]: Lots of lessons for a 21 year old day, Burke, by the way.

01:05:51.689 --> 01:05:55.571
[SPEAKER_05]: It's kind of funny, and you picture you sitting around, as a stockboy and target.

01:05:55.792 --> 01:05:58.113
[SPEAKER_05]: It's actually pretty impressive that you, like when you go to...

01:05:59.472 --> 01:06:19.871
[SPEAKER_05]: The military indoctrination courses whether it's boot camp or OCS whatever there's good there's like people and they're that they were in the junior RTC program in high school or they were a prior and listed guy like there's some people that have or they're you know 24 years old They have a couple of more years of experience so that's pretty impressive to do that well as a freaking target stock boy

01:06:22.813 --> 01:06:30.399
[SPEAKER_05]: Lesson when our ego gets out of control, our leadership suffers, you must recognize the sound of your own ego and keep it in check.

01:06:31.420 --> 01:06:35.623
[SPEAKER_05]: Here what it is telling you and actively choose to disregard what it says.

01:06:36.023 --> 01:06:44.349
[SPEAKER_05]: When you refuse to listen to your ego, you not only subjugate your selfish interests, but also prioritize the team's well-being ahead of your own.

01:06:46.405 --> 01:06:52.139
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's certainly contrary to many people that will tell you to look out for number one.

01:06:52.841 --> 01:06:54.886
[SPEAKER_05]: And if you look out for number one, that'll work for a little while.

01:06:55.801 --> 01:06:56.702
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, it did for you.

01:06:56.722 --> 01:07:00.705
[SPEAKER_05]: In the beginning of OCS, you were like helping your friends, they were helping you a little bit.

01:07:00.745 --> 01:07:04.027
[SPEAKER_05]: Like you guys were dominating, but then it caught up with you.

01:07:04.047 --> 01:07:06.309
[SPEAKER_05]: 100% don't let that happen.

01:07:06.969 --> 01:07:10.391
[SPEAKER_05]: You have a little balance assessment exercise from echelon front here.

01:07:10.411 --> 01:07:11.692
[SPEAKER_05]: It's pretty impressive to see.

01:07:12.413 --> 01:07:14.174
[SPEAKER_05]: And your real world of application.

01:07:14.534 --> 01:07:15.935
[SPEAKER_05]: And again, you start with some quotes here.

01:07:16.456 --> 01:07:17.857
[SPEAKER_05]: This quote you start with is,

01:07:18.337 --> 01:07:19.278
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm just being honest.

01:07:19.318 --> 01:07:21.479
[SPEAKER_05]: If they can't handle the truth, that's on them.

01:07:23.861 --> 01:07:29.344
[SPEAKER_05]: Once again, it's a good little filter for us as leaders.

01:07:29.404 --> 01:07:31.266
[SPEAKER_05]: Is when we hear the words they or them,

01:07:33.767 --> 01:07:49.975
[SPEAKER_05]: When you're saying that it's just a little indicator and I want to check yourself you might you might be a little off-track there Next chapter Complacency is a killer and as you said this is the next chapter naval air station found about and this one

01:07:51.055 --> 01:07:57.961
[SPEAKER_05]: There was something that I really liked about this chapter too because Well, we'll get to it, but this is another great chapter.

01:07:58.642 --> 01:08:02.185
[SPEAKER_05]: Naval Air Station, Fallon Nevada, Top Gun Training Range, May 2005.

01:08:02.405 --> 01:08:06.829
[SPEAKER_05]: So are you are your top-gun student in this one?

01:08:06.889 --> 01:08:07.509
[SPEAKER_05]: Or you don't?

01:08:07.649 --> 01:08:08.950
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm the senior instructor.

01:08:08.970 --> 01:08:10.091
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm the senior instructor.

01:08:10.412 --> 01:08:10.972
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's right.

01:08:11.072 --> 01:08:13.895
[SPEAKER_05]: I got mixed up because this is when you're, but you're going to scrap, right?

01:08:13.975 --> 01:08:14.135
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

01:08:14.815 --> 01:08:16.738
[SPEAKER_03]: Scrap with the guy this is the commanding officer.

01:08:16.958 --> 01:08:19.041
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I've got Viper trim downing.

01:08:19.181 --> 01:08:19.721
[SPEAKER_05]: Is that Viper?

01:08:20.042 --> 01:08:21.223
[SPEAKER_05]: He's a leveling of Viper.

01:08:21.263 --> 01:08:22.705
[SPEAKER_03]: That's his that's him in the moon.

01:08:22.745 --> 01:08:23.446
[SPEAKER_05]: Echo you tracking.

01:08:24.167 --> 01:08:24.367
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

01:08:24.527 --> 01:08:27.911
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, cuz there's Viper and then jester.

01:08:28.091 --> 01:08:30.194
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, this is the jester's jester's an instructor.

01:08:30.454 --> 01:08:31.475
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, this is Viper.

01:08:31.495 --> 01:08:32.577
[SPEAKER_05]: This is the man with that

01:08:33.998 --> 01:08:40.082
[SPEAKER_05]: Fast forward a little bit, my opponent was Tom Downing the Commanding Officer CO of Top Gun, Caussign Trim.

01:08:41.562 --> 01:08:50.488
[SPEAKER_05]: He was the stuff of legend, a three-time instructor and my current boss and closest mentor, he enjoyed one of the best reputations in all of Naval Aviation.

01:08:51.168 --> 01:08:54.250
[SPEAKER_05]: Working for and with him was something I didn't take for granted.

01:08:54.710 --> 01:09:00.177
[SPEAKER_05]: Now you go through like, you kind of set this up and I'll fast forward a little bit fights on.

01:09:00.738 --> 01:09:05.484
[SPEAKER_05]: We both barked into the radio as we scream past each other and oh, it was on.

01:09:05.744 --> 01:09:07.347
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's the way you guys set up your fights.

01:09:07.367 --> 01:09:08.808
[SPEAKER_05]: You go at each other, right?

01:09:09.449 --> 01:09:12.914
[SPEAKER_05]: And then is it a mutual font or is it when you pass each other fights on?

01:09:13.314 --> 01:09:13.794
[SPEAKER_03]: It's set up.

01:09:13.834 --> 01:09:14.755
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a bunch of different ones.

01:09:14.775 --> 01:09:16.995
[SPEAKER_03]: This one was it's designed to be neutral.

01:09:17.316 --> 01:09:22.017
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't want to you don't want to give an advantage because you're trying to assess a perfectly neutral start.

01:09:22.517 --> 01:09:26.179
[SPEAKER_03]: So you set it up, where it's going to be the same altitude, the same speed, everything's the same.

01:09:26.299 --> 01:09:29.660
[SPEAKER_03]: So when you say fight on, you are starting at a level playing field.

01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:32.941
[SPEAKER_03]: So the outcome is like there is no, oh, he was faster.

01:09:32.961 --> 01:09:34.522
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it's, it's a neutral start.

01:09:34.780 --> 01:09:36.643
[SPEAKER_05]: What aircraft is he fine we're both in F-18.

01:09:36.983 --> 01:09:49.221
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so this is this is this is this is man in the box is it ever going to get full scrap I slammed both throttles forward to full afterburner gets

01:09:50.422 --> 01:09:52.443
[SPEAKER_05]: 8.1 g's maximum performance.

01:09:52.563 --> 01:09:55.765
[SPEAKER_05]: Get that giant vapor clouds exploding dude.

01:09:56.365 --> 01:09:58.606
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, what I was like preparing for this podcast.

01:09:59.367 --> 01:10:00.147
[SPEAKER_05]: I had this in mind.

01:10:00.287 --> 01:10:06.330
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to do it 8.1 g maximum performance giant vapor clouds exploding.

01:10:07.110 --> 01:10:09.111
[SPEAKER_05]: Keep the blood where you need it most in your head.

01:10:09.712 --> 01:10:10.352
[SPEAKER_05]: Jet speed.

01:10:10.532 --> 01:10:16.456
[SPEAKER_05]: G bank angle altitude air speed Micro adjustments change in angle horizon stick pressure.

01:10:16.876 --> 01:10:25.042
[SPEAKER_05]: I wanted this wind Swung around high aspect merge win again fire engines to drag in sizing each other up.

01:10:25.582 --> 01:10:26.323
[SPEAKER_05]: See where I'm going with this?

01:10:27.243 --> 01:10:30.244
[SPEAKER_05]: I just like pull about like key words and it's freaking epic.

01:10:30.304 --> 01:10:31.664
[SPEAKER_05]: So get the book everybody.

01:10:32.344 --> 01:10:32.684
[SPEAKER_05]: There you go.

01:10:32.704 --> 01:10:34.865
[SPEAKER_05]: There's your clip for a book advertisement.

01:10:36.205 --> 01:10:37.365
[SPEAKER_05]: My advantage grew.

01:10:37.886 --> 01:10:40.026
[SPEAKER_05]: So you explain like the little things that are going on.

01:10:40.226 --> 01:10:41.506
[SPEAKER_05]: My advantage grew.

01:10:43.387 --> 01:10:46.548
[SPEAKER_05]: Stomped full left brother slam the stick to the left.

01:10:48.509 --> 01:10:49.490
[SPEAKER_05]: Re-definition.

01:10:49.871 --> 01:10:50.972
[SPEAKER_05]: This is another thing.

01:10:51.032 --> 01:10:53.694
[SPEAKER_05]: This is a of term that I love from aviation that I've learned from you.

01:10:54.295 --> 01:11:03.044
[SPEAKER_05]: More speed offensive I set my jet up for the loop extra speed attack position approach the apex.

01:11:03.504 --> 01:11:12.093
[SPEAKER_05]: I looked back over my shoulder So all that those like freaking tower words bro freaking hype Now I'm after read a little bit

01:11:12.453 --> 01:11:20.495
[SPEAKER_05]: Knowing his exact location would help me reorient my nose as I came back around the other side of the loop and aligned my gun sight.

01:11:22.476 --> 01:11:23.196
[SPEAKER_05]: He wasn't there.

01:11:24.276 --> 01:11:25.456
[SPEAKER_05]: I flashed over the other shoulder.

01:11:26.477 --> 01:11:27.197
[SPEAKER_05]: Not there either.

01:11:28.037 --> 01:11:32.218
[SPEAKER_05]: My head shot back and forth once more, trim head vanished.

01:11:33.118 --> 01:11:39.860
[SPEAKER_05]: I cramed my neck as far as it would bend looking directly behind me verifying that the impossible hadn't happened.

01:11:41.608 --> 01:11:42.229
[SPEAKER_05]: only it had.

01:11:43.350 --> 01:11:44.371
[SPEAKER_05]: There was trim.

01:11:45.072 --> 01:11:54.441
[SPEAKER_05]: Purched precisely 1,000 feet behind me as if attached to my plane like a glider by a tether, latching him into the tail, textbook position to finish the fight.

01:11:55.583 --> 01:12:01.108
[SPEAKER_05]: The nose of his hornet presenting a view I had seen many many times before, but didn't want today.

01:12:01.849 --> 01:12:03.671
[SPEAKER_05]: He was in the gun envelope.

01:12:04.832 --> 01:12:18.301
[SPEAKER_05]: As I brought my jet up after the last merge, he had looped along with me reversed his flight path and turned tightly inside the arcade flown through the sky, bringing his jet to rest in the only place he could shoot me.

01:12:19.842 --> 01:12:20.482
[SPEAKER_05]: Game over.

01:12:22.104 --> 01:12:29.228
[SPEAKER_05]: Trim Old School Fighter Pilot, legend, part-time comedian, and father figure to every instructor

01:12:33.402 --> 01:12:34.043
[SPEAKER_05]: He didn't gloat.

01:12:35.204 --> 01:12:43.053
[SPEAKER_05]: He wasn't calling his shot, verifying his accuracy, or announcing me dead, like standard radio protocol dictated.

01:12:44.574 --> 01:12:48.859
[SPEAKER_05]: All I heard was laughter, and it was awful.

01:12:50.661 --> 01:12:53.464
[SPEAKER_05]: Come on, that's where you get to epic, dude.

01:12:55.065 --> 01:12:55.886
[SPEAKER_05]: Humility, right?

01:12:57.387 --> 01:13:00.270
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you, so, so, very humbling situation.

01:13:00.790 --> 01:13:02.011
[SPEAKER_05]: You get to the debrief with shrimp.

01:13:02.992 --> 01:13:04.994
[SPEAKER_05]: And, um, oh, this was good.

01:13:05.655 --> 01:13:08.617
[SPEAKER_05]: He says, don't chalk it up to me being better than you.

01:13:09.098 --> 01:13:11.059
[SPEAKER_05]: Don't let that be your excuse.

01:13:11.980 --> 01:13:34.692
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't do anything you couldn't have done, you just didn't consider all the possibilities or you would have entered that last term differently, instead of max performing the jet like you had the entire day, you were a little lazy, you just floated over the top of that loop, you could have done more with it, but you were content with what you had because 99.9% of the time what you had would have been enough to win.

01:13:40.598 --> 01:13:44.164
[SPEAKER_05]: It's pretty rare given how good we've gotten, but that can be the difference.

01:13:44.464 --> 01:13:47.469
[SPEAKER_05]: Be unrelenting, leave nothing to chance ever.

01:13:47.949 --> 01:13:50.013
[SPEAKER_05]: Cokes every inch out of that jet.

01:13:50.393 --> 01:13:51.375
[SPEAKER_05]: It could save your life.

01:13:53.483 --> 01:13:55.844
[SPEAKER_05]: I know that next time you will be prepared for that.

01:13:57.284 --> 01:13:59.545
[SPEAKER_05]: He closed by bellowing the signature line.

01:13:59.625 --> 01:14:02.026
[SPEAKER_05]: He used any time he expected more from someone.

01:14:02.346 --> 01:14:03.246
[SPEAKER_05]: Come on, man.

01:14:04.147 --> 01:14:04.867
[SPEAKER_05]: And that was that.

01:14:07.128 --> 01:14:08.868
[SPEAKER_05]: What a freaking story of complacency.

01:14:09.468 --> 01:14:17.011
[SPEAKER_05]: Now when he said that to you, are you like, bro, I was doing the best I could, or you like, oh no, he's freaking knows 100%.

01:14:17.971 --> 01:14:19.492
[SPEAKER_05]: I did not push it the way I should have.

01:14:21.574 --> 01:14:23.255
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the only chapter in the book.

01:14:23.655 --> 01:14:31.080
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, every chapter is like I said, you wanna read embarrassing stories about Dave by this book, because every chapter is like, this guy's an idiot.

01:14:32.287 --> 01:14:35.750
[SPEAKER_03]: This one was really, really important that I got the details, right?

01:14:35.770 --> 01:14:41.093
[SPEAKER_03]: Cause I was, there's so much detail in these dog fights and he and I are so close, I'm close.

01:14:41.614 --> 01:14:52.782
[SPEAKER_03]: I send him the chapter and like, please read this edit and make sure it's right cause I really want to capture, I can't use all the words he used in the book cause kids might read this book but ultimately I've catchin' the sentiment and he,

01:14:53.482 --> 01:14:55.944
[SPEAKER_03]: He kind of walked me through that and we and we reminisced about a little bit.

01:14:55.964 --> 01:15:04.489
[SPEAKER_03]: He remembers it well, too because it was a pretty epic fight and he and I had a really really good relationship There was I don't mean this in an arrogant way.

01:15:04.509 --> 01:15:07.971
[SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing he said that I didn't already know It was just like I

01:15:10.199 --> 01:15:15.483
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like I'm still doing this I am I am the training officer at Top Gun.

01:15:15.944 --> 01:15:18.646
[SPEAKER_03]: I am the most senior pilot I am flying more than anyone.

01:15:18.786 --> 01:15:26.152
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm as I'm the it is the best I will ever be at dog fighting an airplane at the peak

01:15:27.733 --> 01:15:29.834
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm still learning the same lesson.

01:15:29.854 --> 01:15:32.456
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been taught since I was like five years old.

01:15:32.496 --> 01:15:39.440
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, so there's a sense of frustration, but not a sense of resistance of the controversy what he was saying.

01:15:39.460 --> 01:15:41.221
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just, I'm like, gosh, damn.

01:15:41.241 --> 01:15:44.103
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's why he's like, come on, man, like, you know better.

01:15:44.783 --> 01:15:52.768
[SPEAKER_03]: But to his point, I had been doing this so long and we've gotten so comfortable that as I started that last loop I'm like, I know what's going to happen.

01:15:53.048 --> 01:15:55.130
[SPEAKER_03]: I know what's going to happen.

01:15:56.070 --> 01:16:10.029
[SPEAKER_03]: and to be quite honest if it was anybody else it would have happened exactly how I thought and but not him and so part of it is him like dude come on man like and there's obviously a bunch more detail in there but I didn't push back and resist it was a hundred percent true

01:16:10.634 --> 01:16:14.598
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's very similar to Jiu-Jitsu, right?

01:16:15.078 --> 01:16:22.225
[SPEAKER_05]: And like, there's those moments like wrestling coaches are really into this, like they'll say you keep wrestling, right?

01:16:22.325 --> 01:16:23.386
[SPEAKER_05]: Like you keep wrestling.

01:16:23.646 --> 01:16:29.432
[SPEAKER_05]: And if Echo and I are going and like we're in a scramble and there's movement and there's movement and there's movement

01:16:31.133 --> 01:16:48.169
[SPEAKER_05]: There's like the minutes one of us backs off just a slight little tiny bit the other person's gonna get the upper hand and you know Like wrestling goes a big you got to keep wrestling until you get the thing you want and it sounds like that one like you're like Oh, I'm in a position where I'm pretty much good to go and then boom you get caught.

01:16:48.329 --> 01:16:48.589
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

01:16:49.350 --> 01:16:51.892
[SPEAKER_03]: and you it's funny because I'm you reading my words.

01:16:51.932 --> 01:17:03.442
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm hearing it's so cool to listen to you read it but before you started going to the book you were talking about the idea of the moment like I forgot the word used like crystallizing or coalescing or the awareness that you have.

01:17:03.962 --> 01:17:06.865
[SPEAKER_03]: I had learned complacency a thousand times.

01:17:07.345 --> 01:17:10.308
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd probably taught other people complacency a thousand times.

01:17:11.941 --> 01:17:15.384
[SPEAKER_03]: This was the one of all of the times I learned it.

01:17:15.464 --> 01:17:16.885
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the one that stuck.

01:17:17.386 --> 01:17:18.086
[SPEAKER_03]: This is where it stuck.

01:17:18.286 --> 01:17:23.110
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the one like, and it's not because I've never heard it before, or didn't know.

01:17:23.230 --> 01:17:27.314
[SPEAKER_03]: I was subjected to it, because this is the one that stuck in that moment.

01:17:27.474 --> 01:17:31.637
[SPEAKER_03]: And this was the easiest one to write about, because it's like, there's a lesson I've heard a thousand times.

01:17:31.677 --> 01:17:33.599
[SPEAKER_03]: I heard the word complacency a thousand times in my life.

01:17:33.799 --> 01:17:34.600
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the one that stuck.

01:17:35.907 --> 01:17:47.619
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and this is like when I was reading this, you know, you and I were talking before here, records today, you're like, dude, I don't know if this is a good book or not, like I can't tell and I understand that, I understand that that thought brought pattern of like, well, you know, you wrote it.

01:17:48.019 --> 01:17:49.360
[SPEAKER_05]: It's hard to judge something, right?

01:17:49.981 --> 01:17:52.624
[SPEAKER_05]: But when I was reading that chapter, I was like, oh, hell yeah, this is a good book.

01:17:52.684 --> 01:17:55.687
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, that's, that's a great, that's a great, freaking story.

01:17:56.327 --> 01:18:00.688
[SPEAKER_05]: and it's written great, and the characters are great, it's like, you know, you can just picture.

01:18:01.008 --> 01:18:12.610
[SPEAKER_05]: When you got to that part, the nice little set up with like, he didn't fall the protocol, he didn't say terminate, he just was laughing, and I can just, oh man, that's those are like the perfect.

01:18:12.630 --> 01:18:21.752
[SPEAKER_05]: There was a time, there was a guy, uh, when we would do semi-nation fighting, and there was a guy, he was a, uh, one of the seal cadre.

01:18:21.912 --> 01:18:23.372
[SPEAKER_05]: This was when I was a seal team, too.

01:18:23.972 --> 01:18:32.159
[SPEAKER_05]: And one of the cadre instructor cadre was this freaking awesome guy and he was We would do simulation against him.

01:18:32.179 --> 01:18:46.730
[SPEAKER_05]: He would always be up for excuse in the cadre and we called them Simey Timmy because because he like you could tell he liked like the simulation But like we'd be clearing a house or something and you'd hear him like cackling

01:18:46.950 --> 01:19:07.099
[SPEAKER_05]: You hear him like laughing like he knew we were coming in here and laughing and you're like oh damn or like you see two guys going to a rump And then you hear like a bunch of simulation fire and then you hear him laughing and you feel like you know This is gonna suck so props to Simmy Timmy, whatever you are these days We appreciate the good training and props to trim keeping it real.

01:19:07.119 --> 01:19:14.942
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll lesson complacency must be resisted at all times Real world application again you begin with a quote

01:19:16.474 --> 01:19:17.395
[SPEAKER_05]: Joe's in the hospital.

01:19:18.316 --> 01:19:19.377
[SPEAKER_05]: The room went dead silent.

01:19:19.517 --> 01:19:21.138
[SPEAKER_05]: Someone as someone made the announcement.

01:19:21.158 --> 01:19:25.822
[SPEAKER_05]: The ambulance got him there in record time, but we don't know what's going on just yet.

01:19:26.102 --> 01:19:26.823
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not good.

01:19:28.524 --> 01:19:31.987
[SPEAKER_05]: And here you are working with the energy company.

01:19:32.548 --> 01:19:37.652
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's like, um, you know, not going to go into the whole story, get the book.

01:19:37.712 --> 01:19:39.794
[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, the one of the things that

01:19:47.125 --> 01:19:47.806
[SPEAKER_05]: and guess what?

01:19:48.346 --> 01:19:50.188
[SPEAKER_05]: Can you do anything about a free crack accident?

01:19:51.129 --> 01:19:51.710
[SPEAKER_05]: Not really.

01:19:52.411 --> 01:19:55.514
[SPEAKER_05]: Can you can you do anything about an accident?

01:19:55.574 --> 01:19:57.295
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure, you can put protocols about the free accident.

01:19:57.315 --> 01:19:59.658
[SPEAKER_05]: You're kind of like not maybe not all that responsible anymore.

01:20:02.510 --> 01:20:04.811
[SPEAKER_04]: But let's not play that game, yeah.

01:20:06.572 --> 01:20:10.714
[SPEAKER_05]: So, this next one, chapter four, detachment is a superpower.

01:20:11.634 --> 01:20:14.876
[SPEAKER_05]: Naval air station, Pensacola, waters your vival training.

01:20:16.616 --> 01:20:17.457
[SPEAKER_05]: Which way is up?

01:20:18.857 --> 01:20:19.978
[SPEAKER_05]: How much time do I have?

01:20:20.598 --> 01:20:24.384
[SPEAKER_05]: Being upside down feels disorienting on dry land under water.

01:20:24.444 --> 01:20:25.746
[SPEAKER_05]: It's wholly unnatural.

01:20:25.826 --> 01:20:35.220
[SPEAKER_05]: I tried to get free But it was taking longer than I thought it would relax as much as I as much as I craved being out of this contraption

01:20:36.978 --> 01:20:39.540
[SPEAKER_05]: Nothing was going to change the fact that I was still submerged.

01:20:39.620 --> 01:20:42.482
[SPEAKER_05]: My movements became erratic, time-raced, my heart rate did the same.

01:20:42.742 --> 01:20:47.446
[SPEAKER_05]: I flailed around the confined metal box, as spooked as a bird trying to escape the clutches of something grabbing it.

01:20:47.926 --> 01:20:50.248
[SPEAKER_05]: Everything about my movements telegraphed panic.

01:20:50.829 --> 01:20:55.452
[SPEAKER_05]: In theory, all I had to do was tilt my head down toward my waist to locate and unhook a simple metal buckle.

01:20:55.772 --> 01:20:58.795
[SPEAKER_05]: From there, a few faint wiggles of my shoulder would have released the straps.

01:20:59.255 --> 01:21:00.416
[SPEAKER_05]: that were keeping me attached.

01:21:00.996 --> 01:21:11.043
[SPEAKER_05]: Once loose, I could have gently let momentum carry me for a few feet deeper under the cockpit so I could swim free, kick a little too to the side and glide to the surface with ease.

01:21:12.364 --> 01:21:19.930
[SPEAKER_05]: But rather than following this slow and methodical technique we were shown, I reached up an panic, grabbed the top of the cockpit railing, pulled my way harder than I needed.

01:21:20.670 --> 01:21:22.412
[SPEAKER_05]: And smashed my helmet into the rail.

01:21:23.053 --> 01:21:29.218
[SPEAKER_05]: It shifted violently on my head covering my eyes and cracked the bridge of my nose Shrouting me in darkness.

01:21:29.679 --> 01:21:30.740
[SPEAKER_05]: So there you go a little healer.

01:21:30.920 --> 01:21:32.541
[SPEAKER_05]: Is that healo dunker or is that cockpit dunk?

01:21:32.561 --> 01:21:33.442
[SPEAKER_03]: That's that's the deal.

01:21:33.462 --> 01:21:36.225
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a cockpit dunker dunker right before the healer dunker.

01:21:36.365 --> 01:21:36.525
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.

01:21:36.585 --> 01:21:38.747
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and Wasn't going well.

01:21:38.867 --> 01:21:39.428
[SPEAKER_05]: Did not go well

01:21:42.452 --> 01:22:05.521
[SPEAKER_05]: water is such an incredible educator and really, you know, this is one of those things where you hope that guys in seal training make the connection, the way that you pass because you go through things that are 10 times or if not 20 times worse than this thing right here in seal training, it's freaking ridiculous.

01:22:06.982 --> 01:22:25.261
[SPEAKER_05]: and what you learn is like if you freak out you 100% are going to fail like there's no you will fail and you do that shit over and over and over again and what you have to do is learn to go take a breath relax and detach

01:22:26.642 --> 01:22:54.450
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's what That's just the importance of that is crazy the crazy thing is though my point in saying all that is It's no guarantee that a seal takes that methodology and applies it to Shit going crazy on the ground or someone yelling in screaming at him or they're freaking spouse You know Raising their voices them like all these things where you could apply the same protocol

01:22:55.695 --> 01:22:56.856
[SPEAKER_05]: but you never got taught.

01:22:56.896 --> 01:23:06.421
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, hey, by the way, the way that what you have to do in your underwater, you gotta do the same thing when you're getting in an argument with your platoon chief, or you're getting in a command argument with your platoon commander.

01:23:06.601 --> 01:23:08.142
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, this is the same thing.

01:23:08.702 --> 01:23:09.203
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the same thing.

01:23:09.523 --> 01:23:13.445
[SPEAKER_05]: You're not gonna improve your situation if you freak out.

01:23:13.845 --> 01:23:14.506
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not gonna happen.

01:23:16.022 --> 01:23:18.446
[SPEAKER_05]: Do they ever refer back to this?

01:23:19.187 --> 01:23:22.632
[SPEAKER_05]: When they were teaching you like, hey, you're gonna have multiple bogeys who are gonna be panic.

01:23:22.912 --> 01:23:23.954
[SPEAKER_05]: Do they ever refer back to this?

01:23:24.214 --> 01:23:26.237
[SPEAKER_05]: Or is it also disconnected like it is in the school teams?

01:23:26.650 --> 01:23:46.135
[SPEAKER_03]: yeah this this one is is everybody does this so there's this like common understanding and appreciation of this the thing that's crazy about this story is like that billboard dunkers with a call it it's just a single place cockpit dunker it didn't even count like it was like it they called it an exposure event like you couldn't actually even fail fail even if you failed it you couldn't quote unquote fail now

01:23:47.075 --> 01:24:04.182
[SPEAKER_03]: what you could do is draw a lot of attention to yourself which I did and that's part of the rest of it but this this thing was like kind of irrelevant by the time I got there like aged out it had been in 30, 40 years and they were getting rid of it and so they let us do it but it wasn't like scored and I still screwed it up.

01:24:05.403 --> 01:24:18.543
[SPEAKER_03]: And something I've always, always liked when you and I talk just kind of war stories and history is the uniqueness for the seals and special operations and uniqueness for the carrier and the aviation is the water, it's just

01:24:19.989 --> 01:24:22.210
[SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing else like it, it is the great equalizer.

01:24:22.230 --> 01:24:24.850
[SPEAKER_03]: There is an environment that you cannot replicate.

01:24:25.670 --> 01:24:33.472
[SPEAKER_03]: And how you behave underwater is a great barometer of, like, how well you can do the things you just said.

01:24:33.492 --> 01:24:35.693
[SPEAKER_03]: And this one was like, oh, this is going to be fun.

01:24:35.833 --> 01:24:36.453
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't wait.

01:24:36.673 --> 01:24:37.673
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw this in the movies.

01:24:37.713 --> 01:24:38.814
[SPEAKER_03]: It's in an officer in a gentleman.

01:24:38.834 --> 01:24:39.574
[SPEAKER_03]: This is going to be super cool.

01:24:39.614 --> 01:24:40.414
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't count.

01:24:40.754 --> 01:24:41.554
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all cool.

01:24:42.174 --> 01:24:44.195
[SPEAKER_03]: And like 10 seconds in when I'm like freaking out.

01:24:44.815 --> 01:24:56.018
[SPEAKER_03]: So much so then you know I was my my nose got like bloody to little like it was a thing and like the divers see this kid like move this Hey Pay attention to this kid watch this kid watch this guy.

01:24:56.078 --> 01:25:08.902
[SPEAKER_03]: So Things got sideways pretty quick the water is the I don't think there's a better teacher in the world in the world's where we came from the waters the best teacher It will it will it will it will cause you problems if you don't handle it correctly

01:25:09.968 --> 01:25:10.849
[SPEAKER_05]: Officer in a gentleman.

01:25:13.111 --> 01:25:14.472
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you see that prior to going in?

01:25:14.652 --> 01:25:15.053
[SPEAKER_05]: Totally.

01:25:15.833 --> 01:25:15.973
[SPEAKER_03]: What?

01:25:16.194 --> 01:25:16.674
[SPEAKER_05]: Did that come out?

01:25:16.694 --> 01:25:18.175
[SPEAKER_05]: That's pre-top Gunner.

01:25:18.375 --> 01:25:19.316
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's 70s, yeah.

01:25:19.336 --> 01:25:20.537
[SPEAKER_03]: That's definitely pre-top Gunner.

01:25:20.557 --> 01:25:23.620
[SPEAKER_03]: But we all knew it was the guy's, you know, guy went to Pentacola to fly jets.

01:25:23.700 --> 01:25:25.001
[SPEAKER_03]: So we all, we all seen the movie.

01:25:26.022 --> 01:25:27.483
[SPEAKER_05]: That's a good movie.

01:25:27.704 --> 01:25:29.225
[SPEAKER_05]: Ecoceros, you seen an officer in a gentleman.

01:25:29.500 --> 01:25:32.241
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, when I was super little so yeah, you got to see it again.

01:25:32.281 --> 01:25:38.464
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it I think it actually What's that expression it kind of keeps up or whatever.

01:25:38.525 --> 01:25:38.925
[SPEAKER_05]: It holds up.

01:25:38.965 --> 01:25:39.325
[SPEAKER_00]: It holds up.

01:25:39.345 --> 01:25:40.005
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it holds up.

01:25:40.025 --> 01:25:51.611
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

01:25:51.791 --> 01:25:53.634
[SPEAKER_05]: is heavy in that movie.

01:25:53.974 --> 01:25:57.358
[SPEAKER_05]: You want to deal with mayo nays, D.O.R.

01:25:57.919 --> 01:26:03.506
[SPEAKER_05]: But you otherwise, and you would never use that term in the civilian world, it's not even a thing.

01:26:04.027 --> 01:26:06.070
[SPEAKER_05]: But in Buds, it's a D.O.R.

01:26:06.270 --> 01:26:08.012
[SPEAKER_05]: It's drop on request, you know, you're quitting.

01:26:08.873 --> 01:26:13.396
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's where they, and OCS, it's, it's, it's DOR, that's, that's where quitting was.

01:26:13.436 --> 01:26:19.080
[SPEAKER_03]: So that, that, that's in the, in the vernacular, the movies in the vernacular, especially you want to, you will be a fly jets.

01:26:19.140 --> 01:26:24.764
[SPEAKER_03]: My grandmother wants to fly jets and like, they got, it was a marine gunnery sergeant, so we all had a little connection to that for sure.

01:26:28.387 --> 01:26:40.635
[SPEAKER_05]: My point and the book is taking that protocol from the water and it's the kind of most mechanical and obvious form of detachment.

01:26:42.106 --> 01:26:49.654
[SPEAKER_05]: but taking that and then being able to apply it to the rest of your life is the point that you're trying to make in this book.

01:26:50.314 --> 01:26:52.236
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's a very obvious example.

01:26:52.336 --> 01:27:01.065
[SPEAKER_05]: If you freak out under water, if you get wrapped up in the emotions of it, if you get wrapped up in the panic of it, you are going to die, or at least fail.

01:27:02.146 --> 01:27:14.152
[SPEAKER_05]: and that the same exact emotions that you can feel or maybe not the same exact emotions sometimes sometimes sort of adjacent emotions anger frustration

01:27:15.732 --> 01:27:21.236
[SPEAKER_05]: Those similar emotions will cause you the same problems from a leadership perspective.

01:27:21.936 --> 01:27:25.579
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's why we have to learn to detach from our emotions and detach from our ego.

01:27:25.599 --> 01:27:27.160
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's exactly what we say here in the lesson.

01:27:27.660 --> 01:27:33.745
[SPEAKER_05]: When we can't detach from our ego, emotions and point of view, the team suffers.

01:27:35.937 --> 01:27:41.560
[SPEAKER_05]: So the physical, and for me, for me, I got to see it, it was a physical detachment.

01:27:42.081 --> 01:27:56.429
[SPEAKER_05]: Like I didn't connect the water piece of it, I connected it to, and I told the story in leadership strategy and tactics like being on a skirmish line and like no one making any decisions to take in a step back and look around and go, oh, okay, cool, it was for me a physical detachment.

01:27:56.469 --> 01:28:01.352
[SPEAKER_05]: And then when I saw other people physically detach and see them be able to open up their field of view and do a better job of leading,

01:28:01.952 --> 01:28:04.155
[SPEAKER_05]: that's where I really saw it for the first time.

01:28:04.535 --> 01:28:11.723
[SPEAKER_05]: And I kind of post that connected it back to, well, then when you're in the water and the seal teams, you learn to relax.

01:28:11.763 --> 01:28:18.891
[SPEAKER_05]: And by the time your skydiving has got to have in the same thing, like if you freak out when your parachute doesn't work, you start to panic, dude, you're not gonna survive.

01:28:18.911 --> 01:28:19.932
[SPEAKER_05]: You're gonna freaking die.

01:28:20.833 --> 01:28:37.882
[SPEAKER_05]: So this idea of taking what happens in the physical world that forces you to detach because when you're detaching from your emotions, you can't see those, when you're touching from your ego, you can't see that, but you have to learn to identify those things and then detach from them.

01:28:38.522 --> 01:28:43.785
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's what, you know, that's critical point in your book and you actually outline

01:28:44.665 --> 01:29:00.276
[SPEAKER_05]: some of the red flags that people need to have that let people know that look it's not a physical thing but there's some physical indications that you might get like and you've got the list here grinding your teeth, clenching your fists, raising your voice.

01:29:02.117 --> 01:29:03.278
[SPEAKER_05]: That probably should be number one.

01:29:05.740 --> 01:29:06.400
[SPEAKER_05]: Getting warm.

01:29:06.420 --> 01:29:09.743
[SPEAKER_05]: By the way, there's also some people that when they get mad they stop talking.

01:29:10.495 --> 01:29:14.236
[SPEAKER_05]: or they start getting quieter, but even more than that they're just not gonna respond to that.

01:29:14.737 --> 01:29:15.477
[SPEAKER_05]: So they just sit there.

01:29:15.957 --> 01:29:19.498
[SPEAKER_05]: So if you're not talking anymore, oh, that could be your emotions.

01:29:20.179 --> 01:29:22.459
[SPEAKER_05]: Getting warm, flushed, red face.

01:29:22.639 --> 01:29:23.620
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep, that can happen.

01:29:24.760 --> 01:29:26.501
[SPEAKER_05]: With drawing from a conversation, there you have it.

01:29:27.601 --> 01:29:31.423
[SPEAKER_05]: Whatever you identify in yourself that marks the first escalation of those emotions.

01:29:31.483 --> 01:29:36.465
[SPEAKER_05]: So getting to know yourself well enough, that when you start losing your temper,

01:29:37.905 --> 01:29:41.347
[SPEAKER_05]: or becoming wrapped up in your emotions or becoming wrapped up in your ego?

01:29:42.588 --> 01:29:58.659
[SPEAKER_05]: For me, one thing I like about the ego one is a lot of times your ego, the insult to your ego is an oftentimes isn't a direct assault in the moment, right?

01:29:58.979 --> 01:30:06.064
[SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes it's like, oh, Dave sends me an email, hey, Janko, I look at your plan and there's a couple of things that I don't think are going to work well.

01:30:06.987 --> 01:30:09.969
[SPEAKER_05]: Like you're not yelling at me, we're not in each other's face, you just sent me an email, right?

01:30:10.449 --> 01:30:14.952
[SPEAKER_05]: But I have time to go, to death's Dave's time, but I have time to go, to death's Dave's, I wish he'd think he is.

01:30:15.312 --> 01:30:16.373
[SPEAKER_05]: Who got him to freaking see you?

01:30:16.393 --> 01:30:17.013
[SPEAKER_05]: This company, who's he got?

01:30:17.253 --> 01:30:18.774
[SPEAKER_05]: His ideas don't even actually matter.

01:30:18.794 --> 01:30:19.435
[SPEAKER_05]: You know what I'm saying?

01:30:19.455 --> 01:30:20.455
[SPEAKER_05]: Like you can go through all those things.

01:30:20.475 --> 01:30:21.776
[SPEAKER_05]: And he got hold on a second.

01:30:22.616 --> 01:30:23.917
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, oh, I see what this is.

01:30:24.558 --> 01:30:25.298
[SPEAKER_05]: This is my ego.

01:30:25.898 --> 01:30:30.741
[SPEAKER_05]: And I love those moments when I'm able to go, oh, oh, oh, what could this be?

01:30:30.781 --> 01:30:32.362
[SPEAKER_05]: What could this negative feeling of?

01:30:32.602 --> 01:30:33.323
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm feeling right now?

01:30:33.543 --> 01:30:35.325
[SPEAKER_05]: could this be that that little nasty thing?

01:30:35.725 --> 01:30:36.006
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

01:30:36.987 --> 01:30:43.033
[SPEAKER_05]: So recognizing that you have sometimes you have a little bit more time to recognize that it's your ego.

01:30:43.334 --> 01:30:47.518
[SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes your emotions catch people just way off guard and they've lost their minds.

01:30:47.859 --> 01:30:50.421
[SPEAKER_05]: They've yelled and screamed and it's like, oh, okay.

01:30:50.482 --> 01:30:51.383
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, a lot of those I can hear.

01:30:52.403 --> 01:30:58.666
[SPEAKER_05]: So sometimes you've got to be more proactive in learning what those things are so that you don't get caught by them.

01:30:58.686 --> 01:30:59.227
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:30:59.407 --> 01:31:05.850
[SPEAKER_03]: And you talk about seeing another people, I think the cool part about you go from the Dilbert Dunker, your biter self and this little cockpit knock up underwater.

01:31:06.350 --> 01:31:08.511
[SPEAKER_03]: The next thing you're in this fake helicopter is eight of you.

01:31:09.332 --> 01:31:11.894
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's when I was like, I'm looking at like a holy cow.

01:31:12.154 --> 01:31:15.115
[SPEAKER_03]: Like people, they all react and some guys are totally good to go.

01:31:15.176 --> 01:31:19.218
[SPEAKER_03]: But the guys that were not, I mean, they're in a full blown freak out on this thing.

01:31:19.258 --> 01:31:26.882
[SPEAKER_03]: And you can see that and like, whoa, so a lot of that was just the observing how other people reacting in the same environment as you and I got there in a bunch of detail.

01:31:26.903 --> 01:31:33.867
[SPEAKER_03]: But part of that yellow dunker is like, dude, that dude is completely losing his mind right now underwater and you can see that and like, oh man.

01:31:34.707 --> 01:31:35.027
[SPEAKER_03]: You got it.

01:31:35.127 --> 01:31:35.588
[SPEAKER_03]: You got it.

01:31:36.148 --> 01:31:36.428
[SPEAKER_03]: You got it.

01:31:36.448 --> 01:31:36.828
[SPEAKER_03]: You got it.

01:31:36.848 --> 01:31:38.329
[SPEAKER_03]: You got to step away from that thing or it's gonna.

01:31:38.770 --> 01:31:39.770
[SPEAKER_03]: It's gonna run you into the ground.

01:31:40.991 --> 01:31:44.913
[SPEAKER_05]: Can I tell a quick uh Can I tell a quick uh adjacent story?

01:31:46.094 --> 01:31:55.800
[SPEAKER_05]: So My普通 is going to fall in back in the day and We're going up to do a bunch of you know sea star missions and call for fire and casting all that stuff

01:31:56.760 --> 01:32:05.303
[SPEAKER_05]: And my Patoon Commander has the idea of like, hey, if I can get the guys backseat rides in the F-18s I'll understand what it's like on the ground a bulb of law.

01:32:05.943 --> 01:32:06.424
[SPEAKER_05]: Good call.

01:32:06.724 --> 01:32:10.485
[SPEAKER_05]: So in order to do that We have to go to Mairmar and we have to get training, right?

01:32:10.525 --> 01:32:22.049
[SPEAKER_05]: So we go through I Don't remember if we did the I think we did do know we didn't do the Dilbert Dunker, but we did ejection sheet training totally So Dilbert's by long gone by then, but yeah, the water survival stuff is all there in Mairmar

01:32:22.492 --> 01:32:29.496
[SPEAKER_05]: So we did the thing where you sit in a flight seat and you pull the freaking ejection handle.

01:32:30.016 --> 01:32:30.497
[SPEAKER_05]: We do that.

01:32:31.437 --> 01:32:34.279
[SPEAKER_05]: We do the helodunker we did.

01:32:35.560 --> 01:32:39.042
[SPEAKER_05]: And the first thing we did in the morning was we went to classes.

01:32:39.782 --> 01:32:48.009
[SPEAKER_05]: But they classes were kind of like, oh, you got to go look up, but you go to go classes, but in order to get in the cockpit, you got to do the ejection seat thing, and you got to do the Dunker thing.

01:32:48.609 --> 01:32:52.493
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, one of my friends will call him Zulu, which was his nickname.

01:32:53.273 --> 01:32:56.456
[SPEAKER_05]: The Zulu cat, he shows up late, like whatever.

01:32:56.516 --> 01:32:58.498
[SPEAKER_05]: He partying or whatever, he shows up late.

01:32:58.758 --> 01:33:00.499
[SPEAKER_05]: He misses the classes.

01:33:01.280 --> 01:33:20.931
[SPEAKER_05]: well in the classes you learn how to breathe like you learn how to push the blood up into your head when you're doing when you're flying in G's and so he missed those classes and we didn't you know we didn't think anything other words is like oh whatever you know like he shows up late we're not wearing the dunker and he gets the claw so he has the piece of paper so he can go in the aircraft

01:33:22.032 --> 01:33:22.772
[SPEAKER_05]: And we get up there.

01:33:22.852 --> 01:33:26.556
[SPEAKER_05]: He went on an F-18 ride and he just passed out the whole time.

01:33:26.596 --> 01:33:31.460
[SPEAKER_05]: He just didn't know how to breathe And so he just like passing out He was like, hey, do you remember him?

01:33:31.580 --> 01:33:40.268
[SPEAKER_05]: He's like, no, he's just the little video of him just passing out over and over again Every time they hit G's he was just passing out Go to those classes.

01:33:40.488 --> 01:33:43.691
[SPEAKER_05]: It's one of the rare cases where it's like, hey, you might want to be in that class

01:33:46.107 --> 01:33:47.508
[SPEAKER_05]: real world application.

01:33:48.568 --> 01:33:50.369
[SPEAKER_05]: Once again, starts with a quote.

01:33:51.490 --> 01:33:54.891
[SPEAKER_05]: If I hear one more about one more discount, I'm going to lose it.

01:33:55.112 --> 01:34:01.335
[SPEAKER_05]: Mary was a sales manager, a large commercial flooring of firm that we had been consulting with for several months.

01:34:01.555 --> 01:34:09.139
[SPEAKER_05]: Sales had recently increased and their business looked solid, but lately some conflicts had developed between the sales team and the rest of the firm.

01:34:09.599 --> 01:34:12.680
[SPEAKER_05]: Mary was not happy and didn't hold back.

01:34:13.221 --> 01:34:13.481
[SPEAKER_05]: Boom.

01:34:15.843 --> 01:34:29.803
[SPEAKER_05]: So, we get some information there about some mistakes that Mary made and how we can proceed in a better direction, cover one more chapter today, this is chapter five.

01:34:31.610 --> 01:34:33.251
[SPEAKER_05]: And this was another chapter, you know.

01:34:33.292 --> 01:34:38.956
[SPEAKER_05]: So now that I'm, now that I'm like reassessing these chapters, freaking good lessons, really good lessons.

01:34:39.257 --> 01:34:44.461
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna have to reassess which, if I force rank these chapters, I'm gonna have to reassess my force ranking.

01:34:45.262 --> 01:34:47.164
[SPEAKER_05]: This one's called Perfection is a lie.

01:34:49.895 --> 01:34:58.539
[SPEAKER_05]: And it says, wave off, wave off the landing signal officer, LSO, snapped at me in a frustrated voice bordering on disgust.

01:34:59.159 --> 01:35:03.181
[SPEAKER_05]: A wave off is an unsafe landing pass that needs to be discontinued.

01:35:04.362 --> 01:35:11.385
[SPEAKER_05]: His words rattled around in my head as I reflexively accelerated my F-18 in response to the call,

01:35:11.725 --> 01:35:15.387
[SPEAKER_05]: and started my climb up and passed the aircraft carrier dumbfounded.

01:35:15.807 --> 01:35:23.491
[SPEAKER_05]: I hadn't even started the final descent of my very first landing, and the LSO was already sending me away to try it again.

01:35:23.892 --> 01:35:24.972
[SPEAKER_05]: Did that just happen?

01:35:25.693 --> 01:35:29.855
[SPEAKER_05]: I silently asked myself as I wrestled to regain my composure.

01:35:33.328 --> 01:35:35.369
[SPEAKER_05]: So, that's the opening.

01:35:35.569 --> 01:35:55.477
[SPEAKER_05]: And after that, you give like a little what it means, what the whole, all this crazy ass situation that it is landed one of these things, it's frigging nuts and you go through a bunch of that and you're talking about how and you get to this point.

01:35:55.497 --> 01:35:59.879
[SPEAKER_05]: You've got a little graph in here of the, of the ball and what that looks like.

01:36:02.760 --> 01:36:06.021
[SPEAKER_03]: Is this your first time landing on an aircraft carrier here?

01:36:06.461 --> 01:36:09.902
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I had already been to the boat in training in the T-45.

01:36:10.082 --> 01:36:12.503
[SPEAKER_03]: I had done, I don't know, 12 or something.

01:36:12.803 --> 01:36:15.343
[SPEAKER_03]: Some day number of landings that had already been to the carrier.

01:36:15.443 --> 01:36:16.203
[SPEAKER_03]: In what aircraft?

01:36:16.423 --> 01:36:17.284
[SPEAKER_03]: The T-45 trainer.

01:36:17.324 --> 01:36:18.944
[SPEAKER_03]: T-45 was a jet trainer.

01:36:19.004 --> 01:36:20.244
[SPEAKER_03]: It was in flight school.

01:36:20.424 --> 01:36:22.745
[SPEAKER_03]: It was the last thing you do in flight school before you finish flight training.

01:36:22.785 --> 01:36:28.226
[SPEAKER_05]: Now is that like, is it kind of like training wheels as an easier aircraft to flyers?

01:36:28.246 --> 01:36:30.067
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't think it's not any.

01:36:32.788 --> 01:36:37.933
[SPEAKER_03]: It may be even a little bit harder than the Hornet's really once you get figured out, it's pretty easy to get to fly.

01:36:37.953 --> 01:36:43.319
[SPEAKER_03]: But the T-45 is a pretty, what's sort of a very forgiving airplane.

01:36:43.399 --> 01:36:53.350
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's really well positioned for a student taken to the boat to the first time T-45 was a really good airplane for a student by himself and I'd already done that in flight school before I finished flying.

01:36:53.370 --> 01:36:53.770
[SPEAKER_03]: That's like 12 times.

01:36:55.015 --> 01:37:04.518
[SPEAKER_03]: 10 or 12 day landings I already done on an aircraft regular buyer like full-up full-up round Normal carrier landings I already done it had that check in the block do you just land and then take off again?

01:37:05.398 --> 01:37:19.322
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you do like you at sea for a little while now like my Recollection in my T45 like I flew out on like on one day got six went home when at the nice I got six when home when I was done never spent the night in the ship just did six landings went back to the beaches They say did it two days in a row and I was good to go

01:37:19.442 --> 01:37:26.405
[SPEAKER_05]: because that's like sometimes when a student is really jacked up they'll do something like make them wear an orange helmet or something like that.

01:37:27.006 --> 01:37:28.466
[SPEAKER_05]: This seems like an orange helmet.

01:37:28.947 --> 01:37:33.669
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a little bit different because you have to do day and night so you just spend the night you're spending several days on the on the carrier.

01:37:33.689 --> 01:37:37.871
[SPEAKER_03]: The day stuff in the training command is mostly just out and back.

01:37:38.447 --> 01:37:43.910
[SPEAKER_05]: But if you had to land on the aircraft and hang out that's you get now to your T-45 and then like kind of you just read helmet.

01:37:43.990 --> 01:37:44.390
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh my god.

01:37:46.471 --> 01:37:50.753
[SPEAKER_05]: So now is this your first time landing on F-18 on the carry?

01:37:50.773 --> 01:37:52.174
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, this is at your first go.

01:37:52.454 --> 01:38:01.698
[SPEAKER_03]: First, the first landing attempt of my very first carrier approach in the F-18 and you get the wave on like half within the approach is like go away.

01:38:02.319 --> 01:38:03.039
[SPEAKER_03]: Come back and do it again.

01:38:04.770 --> 01:38:11.551
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, uh, you circle back around, going to the book here, another approach, six seconds, crap too much power.

01:38:11.671 --> 01:38:12.912
[SPEAKER_05]: I was floating three seconds.

01:38:12.972 --> 01:38:14.092
[SPEAKER_05]: No way this can be salvaged.

01:38:14.412 --> 01:38:17.653
[SPEAKER_05]: The ball who's shooting off the top of the lens and you explain all what all that means.

01:38:17.713 --> 01:38:18.893
[SPEAKER_05]: Barely visible, then bam.

01:38:19.613 --> 01:38:28.455
[SPEAKER_05]: My plane fortunately rebounded off the flight deck and right back into the air, bolter, bolter, bolter, the LSO said, and then not so subtle mocking voice.

01:38:29.195 --> 01:38:33.518
[SPEAKER_05]: Extending the O sound and laying on the snark nice and thick.

01:38:34.039 --> 01:38:47.227
[SPEAKER_05]: This was all in an effort to tell me what I was already Was already so completely obvious although a bolter is a safe pass my jet didn't come to a stop I missed the wires and had to come around yet again.

01:38:47.247 --> 01:38:50.830
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god, not again my mind went berserk

01:38:51.450 --> 01:38:54.033
[SPEAKER_03]: So a bolter is not a bolter is safe.

01:38:54.633 --> 01:39:03.142
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's nothing too crazy about a bolter You've just got a little high you missed the four wires be at the landing be at the deck and you go back up It's not it's not the most dangerous thing in the world.

01:39:03.362 --> 01:39:04.023
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just a little high.

01:39:04.083 --> 01:39:05.885
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you know that you missed the one?

01:39:05.925 --> 01:39:11.370
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right now There's no they don't need to say bolter

01:39:12.591 --> 01:39:40.170
[SPEAKER_03]: Because you're like, oh, I wonder if I'm going to stop like you stop the second you touch the deck and you're going to in the wires it's instantaneous so the bolter is like it's just kind of laying it on and the way that that like bolter bolter like it's on the primary deal everybody in the world here is it it's just kind of like they're just like laughing at you basically hey what how do your wheels do your wheels go over the wires and

01:39:41.010 --> 01:39:52.895
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, depends on how high you are, but yeah, if you miss all four wires, your your tires will land just past that fourth wire and you just hit the ground of bounce right back up.

01:39:52.975 --> 01:40:00.138
[SPEAKER_05]: But when you do successfully land, your runs just go right over the right, you're rolling over the cables.

01:40:00.338 --> 01:40:02.959
[SPEAKER_05]: That's right.

01:40:03.619 --> 01:40:05.380
[SPEAKER_05]: So now this ain't good.

01:40:07.108 --> 01:40:23.560
[SPEAKER_05]: what part of what part of this was your own like personal humiliation and what part of it was real humiliation in other words are they like oh my god what a piece of shit no are they just like hey this guy's a new eye hey whatever bolt they're making fun of you a little bit

01:40:24.340 --> 01:40:27.223
[SPEAKER_05]: But in your mind, it's a hundred percent in-term.

01:40:28.104 --> 01:40:37.413
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like there is, listen, landing a horn on the boat is especially the first time is dead serious.

01:40:38.394 --> 01:40:39.776
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not even messing around.

01:40:40.376 --> 01:40:42.498
[SPEAKER_03]: They have nothing but your best interest in mind.

01:40:43.119 --> 01:40:47.804
[SPEAKER_03]: And so even these calls, like I'm probably in my own mind, like I'm magnifying them dramatically.

01:40:47.924 --> 01:40:56.532
[SPEAKER_03]: And I talk about in the book later, like what even happened on these two, like to them, they're like, dude, this is, yeah, you're in training bro, like this is, it's okay.

01:40:57.413 --> 01:41:00.075
[SPEAKER_03]: But in my mind, I'm like, my life is over.

01:41:00.116 --> 01:41:00.476
[SPEAKER_00]: And keep in mind.

01:41:03.252 --> 01:41:05.653
[SPEAKER_03]: 14-year-old Dave Brooks like I'm gonna land plans on boats.

01:41:06.613 --> 01:41:08.273
[SPEAKER_03]: I do all the wickets you talked about.

01:41:08.293 --> 01:41:09.933
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm on the lathe.

01:41:10.474 --> 01:41:17.675
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, and I mean, literally, this is the last I had done every other flight that I've always, I will have two days of the carrier and I'm done.

01:41:18.975 --> 01:41:20.356
[SPEAKER_03]: And all I want to do is go to a boat squadron.

01:41:21.076 --> 01:41:23.116
[SPEAKER_03]: So, up to this point, like, all right, everything's good.

01:41:23.696 --> 01:41:28.917
[SPEAKER_03]: Just prove to us you can land on a boat and you're gonna, you're gonna get to the go to that your childhood dream is gonna come true.

01:41:29.698 --> 01:41:31.718
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like out of the gate over to.

01:41:32.850 --> 01:41:50.023
[SPEAKER_05]: What's the attrition rate of people that can't get a board and I'm using that expression because I don't like that expression That expression echo Charles is like there's sometimes some people they cannot land on a aircraft carrier 100% and what's the percentage it's how it's it's higher in flight school like I don't know what the number is but

01:41:51.064 --> 01:41:56.249
[SPEAKER_03]: plenty of dudes wash out of flight to school because of the boat and guys that have done everything right until the very end can't land on a boat.

01:41:56.989 --> 01:42:01.353
[SPEAKER_03]: They go fly a sea with theories, they go fly helicopters or they just get washed out of aviation altogether.

01:42:02.334 --> 01:42:05.457
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not a big number, but it's plenty of guys.

01:42:05.617 --> 01:42:15.465
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember when I went to the boat in training in my class of probably two guys didn't finish and that's like damn, it's not 25% and not to mention like

01:42:18.208 --> 01:42:20.990
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the last thing you'd see, the amount of training is going into that.

01:42:21.590 --> 01:42:23.071
[SPEAKER_03]: In the Hornet, it's a little bit lower.

01:42:23.091 --> 01:42:30.657
[SPEAKER_03]: The interesting about the Hornet for the Marine Corps, unlike the Navy, is that most of the Hornet squadrons in the Marine Corps are not boat squadrons.

01:42:30.877 --> 01:42:39.403
[SPEAKER_03]: So if it turns out like being around the carrier isn't quite your thing, you can be a really good Hornet pilot in a land-based non-carrier squadron, no factor.

01:42:40.844 --> 01:42:42.024
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not what I wanted.

01:42:42.044 --> 01:42:43.445
[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to be in a boat squadron.

01:42:43.625 --> 01:42:50.747
[SPEAKER_03]: So this this build pick this is a built this is how many boats squadrons are there at the time that were for in an all of the Marine Corps.

01:42:50.767 --> 01:42:55.629
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know you're there now Maybe maybe two or two.

01:42:56.409 --> 01:43:04.952
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a small it's you know, it's that is kind of like talk about wickets Marine carriers go that's like that's that's there's nothing more narrow.

01:43:05.012 --> 01:43:05.552
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's it

01:43:09.843 --> 01:43:11.064
[SPEAKER_05]: Golden, what is it?

01:43:11.905 --> 01:43:12.665
[SPEAKER_05]: What's the blue angel?

01:43:15.027 --> 01:43:15.588
[SPEAKER_03]: Very different.

01:43:15.788 --> 01:43:21.413
[SPEAKER_03]: I meant from like training to get to the squadron you want to go to and talk and blue it's a very different.

01:43:21.453 --> 01:43:24.355
[SPEAKER_03]: But like the wicked said what what squadron went to end up in?

01:43:24.395 --> 01:43:27.257
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you talk about splitting hairs.

01:43:27.558 --> 01:43:30.920
[SPEAKER_03]: Like the squadron right next to that squadron is a single-state land-based squadron.

01:43:31.061 --> 01:43:33.723
[SPEAKER_03]: Like what the margin for that is just like

01:43:36.645 --> 01:43:49.311
[SPEAKER_05]: And it is weird, you know, as we talk about the fact that everyone's got different skills and like someone has good musical ears and someone else has good reaction time that they're born as they're a little bit better at baseball or whatever.

01:43:49.371 --> 01:43:59.617
[SPEAKER_05]: You can go down the list of these things and then the same thing happens in the SEAL teams where someone makes it through butts and they're some skill that they just stages.

01:44:00.377 --> 01:44:01.258
[SPEAKER_05]: can't do.

01:44:02.359 --> 01:44:03.761
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe it's shooting a pistol.

01:44:03.981 --> 01:44:07.084
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe it's like one out of every probably 300 people.

01:44:07.684 --> 01:44:07.865
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

01:44:07.945 --> 01:44:10.067
[SPEAKER_05]: Just can't get qualified on the weapons and that's see it.

01:44:10.167 --> 01:44:15.632
[SPEAKER_05]: You can't be a seal if you can't shoot a weapon or there's like close quarters combat when you go through that for the first time.

01:44:15.973 --> 01:44:19.596
[SPEAKER_05]: That has an attrition rate and sometimes it's like you know someone to get rolled once.

01:44:20.693 --> 01:44:26.858
[SPEAKER_05]: But if you get rolled once and then you have to get rolled again like or you really is this really, this is the right job for you?

01:44:26.878 --> 01:44:28.439
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but it's probably not the right job for you.

01:44:28.959 --> 01:44:39.027
[SPEAKER_05]: So occasionally someone that goes through every wicked and suffers all those suffering, but they just don't have that last little thing to get the job done.

01:44:40.388 --> 01:44:42.290
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, so let's pick this up now.

01:44:42.330 --> 01:44:50.957
[SPEAKER_05]: You're going to go on your third approach, where you're getting ready to start your third approach, and you say, emotion tried to overtake me.

01:44:51.557 --> 01:44:53.879
[SPEAKER_05]: And by the way, it's could have been the detachment chapter, right?

01:44:54.119 --> 01:45:04.808
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I was like, this is a really good det... And I was kind of bummed that the detachment chapter was already over, because you clearly had to freaking reset your brain.

01:45:06.169 --> 01:45:14.732
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, a motion try to take over a motion try to overtake me I was at the same time angry, embarrassed, frustrated, and full of doubt.

01:45:15.352 --> 01:45:17.993
[SPEAKER_05]: If I didn't pull it together immediately I'd seal my fate.

01:45:18.414 --> 01:45:22.595
[SPEAKER_05]: I calculated I needed six perfect passes to get me out of this hole.

01:45:23.095 --> 01:45:24.116
[SPEAKER_05]: And I mean perfect.

01:45:24.536 --> 01:45:27.397
[SPEAKER_05]: Another boulder or wave off would spell doom.

01:45:28.057 --> 01:45:28.697
[SPEAKER_05]: Is that in your head?

01:45:29.158 --> 01:45:29.478
[SPEAKER_05]: Totally.

01:45:32.093 --> 01:45:35.156
[SPEAKER_05]: much like I needed to stop overreacting to my current emotions.

01:45:35.276 --> 01:45:37.959
[SPEAKER_05]: I also had to stop overreacting to the movement of the ball.

01:45:38.739 --> 01:45:47.948
[SPEAKER_05]: I had to be smoother on the throttles, more subtle, the more erratic I was, the more the LSO would see I wasn't cut out for carrier life.

01:45:48.628 --> 01:45:49.990
[SPEAKER_05]: What was the LSO actually thinking?

01:45:50.410 --> 01:45:52.392
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, oh, new guy, he'll get it dialed.

01:45:52.632 --> 01:45:55.755
[SPEAKER_05]: But in your mind, that guy's not fit for carrier life, totally.

01:45:57.120 --> 01:46:03.384
[SPEAKER_05]: The ship was no place for freight, nerves, unpredictable reactions or subpar flying.

01:46:03.504 --> 01:46:07.426
[SPEAKER_05]: It was a place for perfection, and I was going to show that I could deliver it starting right now.

01:46:08.046 --> 01:46:08.647
[SPEAKER_05]: I relaxed.

01:46:09.087 --> 01:46:09.847
[SPEAKER_05]: Man, I wish you put it.

01:46:10.048 --> 01:46:10.728
[SPEAKER_05]: I should have caught this.

01:46:10.748 --> 01:46:11.769
[SPEAKER_05]: You should have put detached there.

01:46:12.929 --> 01:46:13.670
[SPEAKER_05]: I detached.

01:46:15.971 --> 01:46:20.732
[SPEAKER_05]: And once again, my downward downwind checks were complete, fast forward a little bit.

01:46:20.772 --> 01:46:23.012
[SPEAKER_05]: Two, three, three, hornet ball, three point nine.

01:46:23.413 --> 01:46:26.773
[SPEAKER_05]: Roger ball, cadence started, don't overreact.

01:46:27.033 --> 01:46:30.034
[SPEAKER_05]: Here comes the ramp, six seconds, three seconds, bam, tug.

01:46:30.974 --> 01:46:33.815
[SPEAKER_05]: And I just read some keywords because I like these keywords.

01:46:33.855 --> 01:46:34.555
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm getting from this book.

01:46:36.095 --> 01:46:37.195
[SPEAKER_05]: And then it's time to get fuel.

01:46:38.396 --> 01:46:41.956
[SPEAKER_05]: And you went through almost exact repeat of the previous.

01:46:41.976 --> 01:46:43.357
[SPEAKER_05]: And you start doing this over and over again.

01:46:43.377 --> 01:46:44.357
[SPEAKER_05]: You do three more landings.

01:46:45.392 --> 01:46:45.952
[SPEAKER_05]: and you get done.

01:46:46.853 --> 01:46:47.673
[SPEAKER_05]: What else, what did I miss there?

01:46:48.013 --> 01:46:48.673
[SPEAKER_03]: You got it, that's it.

01:46:49.434 --> 01:46:59.818
[SPEAKER_03]: Get my, I get my, I get my next six or seven, whatever what the number was and I finish my, what in my mind is like my day requirements, daytime requirements are done.

01:47:00.098 --> 01:47:02.259
[SPEAKER_05]: Now is it worth saying right now?

01:47:03.280 --> 01:47:06.781
[SPEAKER_05]: What were you doing to make sure that you made that happen?

01:47:07.241 --> 01:47:11.543
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, there's, I mean it's very obvious.

01:47:11.583 --> 01:47:12.944
[SPEAKER_03]: You notice it like each chapter

01:47:14.576 --> 01:47:16.318
[SPEAKER_03]: The principle doesn't like to live by itself.

01:47:16.438 --> 01:47:25.529
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the ego chapters connected to the complacency chapter, connected to the detachment connected to this concept of perfection.

01:47:26.209 --> 01:47:29.713
[SPEAKER_03]: In my mind, I am so afraid of revealing my,

01:47:31.335 --> 01:47:47.272
[SPEAKER_03]: inability to be what I think is required for the ship, which is essentially as close to perfection as possible, that what I tell myself is like, hey, just just come down, which is in some sense, that a really good thing, the point that I'm making my head is like, if it's a little bit low or a little bit high, it's okay.

01:47:48.292 --> 01:48:02.295
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't don't like overreacted that because then it's going to get really erratic So just be smoother be a little more calm Be a little more subtle in my corrections and I tell them I like that's the that's the answer here because before I was like Whoa, whoa all over the place.

01:48:02.335 --> 01:48:09.817
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm so high or so out of the norm the LSOs like hey dude Go away you're unsafe try this again.

01:48:10.537 --> 01:48:16.959
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like not not this time I'm gonna be much more smooth and subtle and much less reactive to the deviations

01:48:18.439 --> 01:48:26.421
[SPEAKER_05]: So you end up, it's time for a little bit of a debrief, and you say, I was met by the loan senior LSO chip, which is your call sign.

01:48:27.002 --> 01:48:29.362
[SPEAKER_05]: Chip, that was not the performance I expected from you.

01:48:29.942 --> 01:48:36.204
[SPEAKER_05]: He said without so much as a greeting, hand shake, or customary welcome aboard, that acknowledges a career milestone.

01:48:36.244 --> 01:48:36.884
[SPEAKER_05]: Is that a real thing?

01:48:37.244 --> 01:48:39.625
[SPEAKER_05]: You land on the boat, the first thing that it says, welcome aboard.

01:48:39.925 --> 01:48:45.727
[SPEAKER_05]: Is that after you do it six times, like your qualifier is just like the first time you do it, the first time you get out of the jet on a carrier, and

01:48:46.587 --> 01:48:50.271
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like that had never happened to me before because you're gonna get it.

01:48:50.291 --> 01:48:53.374
[SPEAKER_03]: You're getting out of the jet for the first time on your You were aboard the ship.

01:48:54.075 --> 01:49:09.590
[SPEAKER_03]: You get out of a carrier out of your jet and you're on a carrier You're going to like a ready rumor estate room like this is my first time I've ever set foot on a boat And you know this the customary thing is like welcome aboard and it's kind of like Yeah, it's a little like hey, you're here good job

01:49:10.490 --> 01:49:11.090
[SPEAKER_03]: But you don't get that.

01:49:11.170 --> 01:49:17.672
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't get that fast forward a little bit you were low.

01:49:17.752 --> 01:49:33.978
[SPEAKER_05]: He agreed emphatically what what I can't figure out is why would you keep the ball low all day as soon as you see that ball drop below the datams what does it tell you so explain to me what was happened you explained in the book but just give me I don't want to hold short version is like so as I'm

01:49:34.718 --> 01:49:35.999
[SPEAKER_03]: The ball is always moving up and down.

01:49:36.139 --> 01:49:38.060
[SPEAKER_03]: It's never like perfectly steady.

01:49:38.100 --> 01:49:39.642
[SPEAKER_03]: It's constantly moving a little bit.

01:49:39.682 --> 01:49:48.648
[SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully And what I was seeing is like as the ball went low like a tiny like and you can see Perceptor like pretty small amount of like I'm like barely low.

01:49:48.668 --> 01:49:54.992
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like oh That's fine, right like what's a quarter of a of a of a datum low?

01:49:56.273 --> 01:50:07.159
[SPEAKER_05]: It's almost imperceptible and in your mind is it if you're a little bit low Yeah, you're gonna hit you're gonna land you're gonna be fine Yeah, it's a little bit a little bit high.

01:50:07.419 --> 01:50:08.219
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you miss now?

01:50:08.259 --> 01:50:21.166
[SPEAKER_03]: They're both a little bit of either thing is totally fine in your brain Right and what you're thinking is like so here's the thing if the ball is in the middle That it called a centered ball you're gonna go right into the right the target wires like just before the three wire

01:50:21.826 --> 01:50:33.941
[SPEAKER_03]: if it's a tiny bit high you might still get the three and if it's sort of high you'll still get the four and if it's a little bit low you'll get the two so you've got some wiggle room there and I explained it's not a lot but you've got some and you can be pretty precise in it.

01:50:34.842 --> 01:50:40.329
[SPEAKER_03]: I had gotten to a place where I was like if I take a little low and I overreact and it goes really high

01:50:41.510 --> 01:50:46.898
[SPEAKER_03]: That's like I'm erratic and I'm inconsistent and that's I'm going to miss again.

01:50:46.918 --> 01:50:48.540
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to go around again for the third time.

01:50:49.121 --> 01:50:53.226
[SPEAKER_03]: So when I see that low, I'm like, I'll just kind of ride that thing a little bit.

01:50:53.366 --> 01:50:56.651
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you kind of just stabilize and keep it from dropping,

01:50:57.552 --> 01:50:58.492
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you're a little low.

01:50:58.592 --> 01:50:59.413
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, a little low.

01:50:59.613 --> 01:51:11.397
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's those are all the things in my head like don't overreact Which is also like don't let them see that you're freaking out just be cool be calm and What I did is kind of like cool be perfect.

01:51:11.437 --> 01:51:18.560
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and don't because if I move it that means I was I'm revealing that I'm making correction Which is I didn't want to do that.

01:51:18.580 --> 01:51:23.962
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't want to show that I was off and I kind of like just accept it

01:51:26.583 --> 01:51:27.563
[SPEAKER_05]: He goes on to tell you.

01:51:27.863 --> 01:51:29.044
[SPEAKER_05]: Bolters will happen.

01:51:29.084 --> 01:51:30.964
[SPEAKER_05]: It's no big deal, especially at this point in your career.

01:51:31.524 --> 01:51:38.506
[SPEAKER_05]: But if you get in the habit of dragging that, dragging that low, pretending it's okay, not making constant adjustments one way.

01:51:38.606 --> 01:51:41.387
[SPEAKER_05]: And then the other, one day, you'll meet the ramp.

01:51:42.208 --> 01:51:43.348
[SPEAKER_05]: And then he delivered the kicker.

01:51:43.928 --> 01:51:45.889
[SPEAKER_05]: And do you think I wouldn't see that you were low?

01:51:48.329 --> 01:51:50.310
[SPEAKER_05]: He stopped talking, letting that sink in.

01:51:51.150 --> 01:51:52.610
[SPEAKER_05]: Why did I think I could hide that from him?

01:51:52.731 --> 01:51:54.131
[SPEAKER_05]: Who did I think I was fooling?

01:51:55.169 --> 01:51:57.330
[SPEAKER_05]: After he knew his pointed landed, he continued.

01:51:57.650 --> 01:51:59.891
[SPEAKER_05]: Chip, there is no perfect pass.

01:52:00.271 --> 01:52:04.093
[SPEAKER_05]: After hundreds of pastic practice passes at the field, you know that.

01:52:04.453 --> 01:52:07.595
[SPEAKER_05]: You've been, you've been to the ship before, you know that.

01:52:07.915 --> 01:52:12.057
[SPEAKER_05]: You are making adjustments and corrections to your errors all the time.

01:52:12.777 --> 01:52:13.298
[SPEAKER_05]: In fact,

01:52:14.318 --> 01:52:21.225
[SPEAKER_05]: The sooner you accept your deviations that faster you'll fix them and the better you will get, I'm not looking for perfect.

01:52:21.625 --> 01:52:23.127
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm just looking for corrections.

01:52:23.627 --> 01:52:28.052
[SPEAKER_05]: The worst thing you can do is hide from making them especially at the ship.

01:52:29.848 --> 01:52:35.829
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's so, it's so painful hearing you read my words and recounting that story.

01:52:36.850 --> 01:52:42.571
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're doing, you're being nice in terms, you picture that he's like, Kip, what are you doing?

01:52:42.611 --> 01:52:43.951
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, he's so mad at me.

01:52:43.971 --> 01:52:46.872
[SPEAKER_03]: He's so like annoyed at me.

01:52:47.232 --> 01:52:47.752
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm being me.

01:52:47.852 --> 01:52:49.353
[SPEAKER_03]: You're being, you're being me.

01:52:49.453 --> 01:52:50.333
[SPEAKER_03]: You can picture this guy.

01:52:50.353 --> 01:52:53.614
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, dude, what did you think I was gonna see it?

01:52:53.634 --> 01:52:58.975
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, he's so frustrated because he's telling me something that he knows I know.

01:53:00.035 --> 01:53:07.877
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, bro, did you think in your second first day in the Hornet ever?

01:53:08.217 --> 01:53:14.499
[SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't, the guy is a wave thousands and thousands and thousands of land and like, you're going to sneak this by me?

01:53:15.119 --> 01:53:18.100
[SPEAKER_03]: So he's kind of looking to be like, credulous and just like,

01:53:19.540 --> 01:53:33.336
[SPEAKER_03]: It's such a hard thing to have to recount because his debrief to me was just like he's so disappointed that I thought I was doing the right thing when deep down I knew that I wasn't and he's like what are you doing?

01:53:34.558 --> 01:53:38.743
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's that whole point of like if I'm a if and I'm talking like in my mind like I'm just

01:53:39.223 --> 01:53:40.163
[SPEAKER_03]: Tiny bit low.

01:53:40.364 --> 01:53:43.505
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like nobody sees this and don't it and don't know anything.

01:53:43.545 --> 01:53:48.267
[SPEAKER_03]: Just leave it and He's looking at me like are you are you kidding me?

01:53:48.467 --> 01:53:52.548
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you actually think as a student in your first trip of the carrier?

01:53:52.588 --> 01:53:55.289
[SPEAKER_03]: You're so smooth and so like it's like what's wrong with you?

01:53:55.870 --> 01:53:56.070
[SPEAKER_03]: Just

01:53:56.990 --> 01:54:16.863
[SPEAKER_03]: Just fly the way I touch out of fly and he was just he was so did it it was like you know like when your dad is it not like he wasn't mad he was disappointed in in my own stupidity Having to recount that story at that stage of my career is like really hard lesson to have to admit because he's looking to like you He's like he could not believe how dumb

01:54:17.523 --> 01:54:18.724
[SPEAKER_03]: And it just passed after Pat.

01:54:18.764 --> 01:54:20.125
[SPEAKER_03]: I get to seven and a row of the same thing.

01:54:21.226 --> 01:54:23.487
[SPEAKER_03]: But they weren't unsafe like, I'm going to hit the ship.

01:54:23.507 --> 01:54:28.691
[SPEAKER_03]: So they didn't hit, he's just kind of watching like, he's probably Alina's was like, this idiot's going to do it again, isn't he?

01:54:28.851 --> 01:54:30.273
[SPEAKER_03]: Boom, same thing, boom, same thing, boom, same thing.

01:54:30.293 --> 01:54:31.393
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't like, oh, they don't see it.

01:54:31.473 --> 01:54:32.214
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm so good to go.

01:54:32.754 --> 01:54:34.015
[SPEAKER_03]: I saved, I salvaged it.

01:54:34.175 --> 01:54:35.236
[SPEAKER_03]: And clearly, the deep sign-ups.

01:54:36.497 --> 01:54:42.985
[SPEAKER_05]: When I went to OCS, you get into the childhood and they're like, don't look at your meal, right?

01:54:43.465 --> 01:54:45.187
[SPEAKER_05]: But like, don't look at your food.

01:54:45.227 --> 01:54:46.389
[SPEAKER_05]: They're calling it squaring your meal.

01:54:46.829 --> 01:54:51.935
[SPEAKER_05]: You look straight ahead and you put your fork down, you grab whatever you can in your peripheral vision, then you bring it up to you.

01:54:51.955 --> 01:54:52.176
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you?

01:54:52.196 --> 01:54:52.396
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you?

01:54:52.436 --> 01:54:52.696
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you?

01:54:52.716 --> 01:54:52.877
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you?

01:54:52.917 --> 01:54:53.317
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you?

01:54:53.337 --> 01:54:53.617
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you?

01:54:53.637 --> 01:54:53.818
[SPEAKER_03]: What?

01:54:53.998 --> 01:54:54.819
[SPEAKER_03]: Nothing, different thing.

01:54:54.859 --> 01:54:55.019
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:54:55.440 --> 01:54:56.441
[SPEAKER_03]: We definitely stared at our food.

01:54:56.821 --> 01:55:11.600
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh shit, so they called it squaring your meals and you went you had to look straight ahead and you could move your fork at a 90 degree angle out from your head and the 90 degree angle down to your plate Get food on it through your peripheral vision bring it straight up in front of you and then bring it straight to back your mouth

01:55:12.501 --> 01:55:15.522
[SPEAKER_05]: And they're yelling at us, that's like literally day one of OCS.

01:55:16.142 --> 01:55:18.722
[SPEAKER_05]: And so we're sitting down to eat and they're yelling, don't look at your food.

01:55:19.063 --> 01:55:23.904
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm sitting there, I'm going, dude, there's no way they're going to be able to tell that I look down on my food, because I got to see what I'm putting on my fork.

01:55:24.524 --> 01:55:31.405
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so I just like, which my eyes only just like glance down and I mean, I might as well have just shot off a red star cluster.

01:55:31.746 --> 01:55:33.286
[SPEAKER_05]: These freaking dies were all over me.

01:55:33.746 --> 01:55:36.887
[SPEAKER_05]: And I was like, oh damn, and then fast forward 13 weeks or 12 weeks.

01:55:36.907 --> 01:55:41.908
[SPEAKER_05]: Now I'm one of the student, whatever, officer, leader guys and sure enough,

01:55:42.848 --> 01:55:46.750
[SPEAKER_05]: They might as well shoot off a red star cluster, and that's kind of reminds me of this story.

01:55:46.770 --> 01:55:48.911
[SPEAKER_05]: You're thinking you're all like So smooth.

01:55:49.051 --> 01:56:04.258
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, uh, lesson here is perfection doesn't exist so don't demand it I'm one of the one thing I loved about this is so and you and I had a discussion about this before the landing grades on a aircraft carrier

01:56:05.660 --> 01:56:08.702
[SPEAKER_05]: uh, there's one that's called cut pass.

01:56:09.122 --> 01:56:13.125
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is an unsafe pass with unacceptable division.

01:56:13.145 --> 01:56:15.306
[SPEAKER_05]: This is like, you're probably, are you written up for that?

01:56:15.366 --> 01:56:18.088
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's like cut passes very rare.

01:56:18.148 --> 01:56:18.908
[SPEAKER_03]: You have a cut pass.

01:56:18.928 --> 01:56:21.029
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a decent chance you're going to get kicked off the ship.

01:56:21.089 --> 01:56:21.610
[SPEAKER_03]: It's that bad.

01:56:21.670 --> 01:56:25.212
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, it's like, you're going to die if we don't intervene and you can't do that.

01:56:25.703 --> 01:56:29.626
[SPEAKER_05]: The next one is a wave-off, which is an unsafe pass that needs to be discontinued.

01:56:29.666 --> 01:56:33.428
[SPEAKER_05]: So, yep, you're on the wrong approach or whatever too fast too slow, something like that.

01:56:34.169 --> 01:56:35.330
[SPEAKER_05]: The next one is no grade.

01:56:36.250 --> 01:56:42.315
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is a pass with larger deviations, poor corrections, or no response to LSO calls.

01:56:42.675 --> 01:56:45.037
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's called no grade, meaning like, that's not good.

01:56:46.450 --> 01:56:52.673
[SPEAKER_05]: then you have a boulder, which we discussed, a safe pass where the jet doesn't come to a stop.

01:56:53.154 --> 01:56:59.157
[SPEAKER_05]: And then you have fair, which is a pass with some safe deviations and appropriate corrections.

01:56:59.837 --> 01:57:05.700
[SPEAKER_05]: And the best grade that you can possibly get, that they will give you, is an okay.

01:57:05.940 --> 01:57:12.044
[SPEAKER_05]: And okay, as a pass with only minor deviations, because no matter how perfect you think they're all gonna have,

01:57:13.071 --> 01:57:13.951
[SPEAKER_05]: minor deviations.

01:57:15.051 --> 01:57:20.993
[SPEAKER_05]: So, perfection is a lie, and that is the lesson.

01:57:21.893 --> 01:57:27.094
[SPEAKER_05]: For this one, close out with this one today, this is the real world application.

01:57:27.114 --> 01:57:30.115
[SPEAKER_05]: And once again, you start with a quote.

01:57:30.155 --> 01:57:31.495
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you think you were starting with quotes every time?

01:57:31.515 --> 01:57:32.295
[SPEAKER_05]: Or did something?

01:57:32.495 --> 01:57:35.536
[SPEAKER_03]: Until you, it was not a design technique.

01:57:35.696 --> 01:57:38.036
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just me recalling, okay, what was this conversation?

01:57:38.116 --> 01:57:40.297
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's always like them like, yeah, just,

01:57:41.197 --> 01:57:43.799
[SPEAKER_03]: Blording something anger like that's the start of the conversation.

01:57:43.859 --> 01:57:49.063
[SPEAKER_05]: It's each time it's them completely violating the principle in one sentence That's the open reach time.

01:57:49.103 --> 01:57:51.525
[SPEAKER_05]: That's why it works so well and here's this example.

01:57:51.625 --> 01:57:56.328
[SPEAKER_05]: These small mistakes are killing us It has to stop Mitchell said every time it's something else.

01:57:56.428 --> 01:57:58.070
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't believe this keeps happening.

01:57:58.110 --> 01:58:04.294
[SPEAKER_05]: This is like again just the opposite of the application or the principle go on to say here

01:58:06.355 --> 01:58:08.016
[SPEAKER_05]: Is it really possible to be perfect?

01:58:08.056 --> 01:58:12.718
[SPEAKER_05]: I finally asked and do you think they hear that when you say that?

01:58:13.338 --> 01:58:14.258
[SPEAKER_05]: Mitchell thought for a moment.

01:58:15.038 --> 01:58:18.320
[SPEAKER_05]: That's not really what I'm saying, but I see what you mean, he said.

01:58:18.920 --> 01:58:20.700
[SPEAKER_05]: You're building some intricate stuff here.

01:58:21.221 --> 01:58:27.363
[SPEAKER_05]: Each build looks so unique and requires different materials and finishes, so is uniform perfection really possible.

01:58:28.114 --> 01:58:29.655
[SPEAKER_05]: Mitchell didn't respond, so I continued.

01:58:30.436 --> 01:58:33.498
[SPEAKER_05]: As of now, what happens when they do make a mistake?

01:58:33.898 --> 01:58:34.899
[SPEAKER_05]: What are your debriefs like?

01:58:35.319 --> 01:58:37.561
[SPEAKER_05]: How do you improve what one's those mistakes are discovered?

01:58:38.562 --> 01:58:40.083
[SPEAKER_05]: And do your employees say something?

01:58:41.003 --> 01:58:43.625
[SPEAKER_05]: Or are they more likely to hide it?

01:58:45.747 --> 01:58:47.128
[SPEAKER_05]: He was speechless.

01:58:48.509 --> 01:58:50.951
[SPEAKER_05]: And to get the rest of the story,

01:58:52.368 --> 01:58:52.668
[SPEAKER_05]: the book.

01:58:52.949 --> 01:58:53.669
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll cover the rest.

01:58:53.709 --> 01:58:55.111
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the first five chapters.

01:58:55.771 --> 01:58:58.194
[SPEAKER_05]: We have ten chapters, ten principles that you talk about in the book.

01:58:59.795 --> 01:59:00.957
[SPEAKER_05]: Good place to stop for today.

01:59:01.757 --> 01:59:09.345
[SPEAKER_05]: And like I said, these are the lessons, the first five chapters, these are the lessons about the mindset of a leader.

01:59:10.506 --> 01:59:14.972
[SPEAKER_05]: And what it is, every problem is leadership problem, humility is the most important attribute complacency is a killer.

01:59:15.392 --> 01:59:17.355
[SPEAKER_05]: Detachments is a super power, perfection is a lie.

01:59:19.297 --> 01:59:21.640
[SPEAKER_05]: The next part of the book is the actions of a leader.

01:59:22.301 --> 01:59:23.502
[SPEAKER_05]: And we'll get into those next time.

01:59:26.206 --> 01:59:26.927
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for writing that man.

01:59:28.473 --> 01:59:35.623
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm really glad you wrote it, especially now that, you know, we were kind of talking about this earlier today.

01:59:36.524 --> 01:59:45.997
[SPEAKER_05]: When I was originally doing the podcast, I would, you know, read a book at home, prep it, you know, outline or highlight the stuff that I'm going to read, and it would be like, oh, this is a, this is a, this is a, this is a, this is a, this is a, this is a,

01:59:47.133 --> 01:59:49.974
[SPEAKER_05]: I wouldn't ever think to myself, this is powerful, you know?

01:59:50.794 --> 01:59:59.256
[SPEAKER_05]: But then I'd get on the podcast and I have the headset on and you're hearing yourself read and you're like in the moment, you're like, sometimes it's like, hot wrenching stuff or super powerful stuff.

01:59:59.936 --> 02:00:09.139
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's definitely, but as time went on, I got better and better at judging, like, oh yeah, this is a really powerful moment or hey, this is gonna be heavy on the podcast or stuff like that.

02:00:09.619 --> 02:00:14.020
[SPEAKER_05]: And this one, same thing, I was like, oh, this is a good one right here.

02:00:14.100 --> 02:00:14.860
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, this is powerful.

02:00:15.480 --> 02:00:21.925
[SPEAKER_05]: And so yeah, I think people are gonna people are definitely gonna like read this book So awesome job writing it.

02:00:22.185 --> 02:00:26.828
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, if you're listening or to the book need the need to lead by Dave Burke.

02:00:27.268 --> 02:00:34.133
[SPEAKER_05]: The forward Incredible forward Yeah, written by Dr. Willink from what I understand pretty amazing

02:00:37.340 --> 02:00:38.020
[SPEAKER_05]: They're gonna help you.

02:00:38.260 --> 02:00:39.681
[SPEAKER_05]: It's gonna help your ability to lead.

02:00:39.721 --> 02:00:40.341
[SPEAKER_05]: It's gonna help your brain.

02:00:40.361 --> 02:00:41.341
[SPEAKER_05]: You're gonna become better.

02:00:41.761 --> 02:00:43.582
[SPEAKER_05]: We're not just helping our brains, though.

02:00:44.062 --> 02:00:44.882
[SPEAKER_05]: Echo Charles, yeah.

02:00:45.462 --> 02:00:47.263
[SPEAKER_05]: I help my brain today with a go.

02:00:47.503 --> 02:00:50.563
[SPEAKER_05]: I see Dave Berks about done with that go that he's got going on there.

02:00:51.904 --> 02:00:53.624
[SPEAKER_05]: Need to fuel our brain, need to fuel our bodies.

02:00:54.364 --> 02:00:55.305
[SPEAKER_05]: Fuel our recovery.

02:00:55.825 --> 02:00:55.945
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

02:00:56.445 --> 02:00:57.005
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you like that one?

02:00:57.405 --> 02:00:58.206
[SPEAKER_05]: Fuelling your recovery.

02:00:58.886 --> 02:01:00.526
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that just might have become a new thing.

02:01:01.587 --> 02:01:02.487
[SPEAKER_05]: Fuelling your recovery.

02:01:03.727 --> 02:01:06.528
[SPEAKER_05]: We got protein, jockelfuel.com, check it out.

02:01:07.649 --> 02:01:15.051
[SPEAKER_05]: Whether you need protein, whether you need joint supplements, whether you need energy, whether you need hydration.

02:01:15.491 --> 02:01:16.092
[SPEAKER_05]: We got you covered.

02:01:16.872 --> 02:01:21.714
[SPEAKER_05]: Check out jockelfuel.com if you want to get engaged in that activity.

02:01:21.994 --> 02:01:22.854
[SPEAKER_05]: That's my recommendation.

02:01:25.147 --> 02:01:30.289
[SPEAKER_05]: Did I tell you about my, um, did I tell you about my little, uh, thing?

02:01:31.870 --> 02:01:32.350
[SPEAKER_05]: Check this out.

02:01:32.390 --> 02:01:33.010
[SPEAKER_05]: Don't think so.

02:01:33.150 --> 02:01:33.630
[SPEAKER_05]: Check this out.

02:01:33.770 --> 02:01:34.651
[SPEAKER_05]: I figured something out.

02:01:34.931 --> 02:01:42.554
[SPEAKER_05]: There's, uh, there's various companies right now that are making protein ice cream from the other there.

02:01:42.574 --> 02:01:43.814
[SPEAKER_05]: There are a couple different brands out there.

02:01:43.834 --> 02:01:49.056
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, uh, I believe that when I'm currently engaging in something called protein pints.

02:01:49.516 --> 02:01:49.656
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

02:01:50.877 --> 02:01:52.157
[SPEAKER_05]: So what I figured out is take a

02:01:53.898 --> 02:02:05.144
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, and you put protein pites in between bulk cookie two two bulk cookies Bro, yeah, yeah, with like 38 grams or something of protein.

02:02:05.305 --> 02:02:07.286
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's a legit evolution.

02:02:07.546 --> 02:02:10.707
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's really You know the sound

02:02:11.688 --> 02:02:14.669
[SPEAKER_05]: You know like certain flavors when you put them together, they're just next to it.

02:02:14.689 --> 02:02:31.535
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

02:02:32.857 --> 02:02:36.138
[SPEAKER_05]: Because there's no, there's no, is there something wrong with you?

02:02:36.158 --> 02:02:43.522
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, if you have a protein ice cream sandwich with milk cookies for breakfast, are you a bad person?

02:02:43.982 --> 02:02:50.125
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, if I straight up busted you have in a chocolate chip cookie with some freaking briars of a nilla between it in the morning, I'd be like, bro, you got issues.

02:02:50.145 --> 02:02:50.585
[SPEAKER_05]: It's different.

02:02:50.925 --> 02:02:51.385
[SPEAKER_01]: It's different.

02:02:51.945 --> 02:02:55.347
[SPEAKER_00]: But all day, I can get away with this, right, breakfast, like 10 o'clock.

02:02:55.887 --> 02:02:56.327
[SPEAKER_00]: It's bold. 930.

02:02:58.208 --> 02:02:58.988
[SPEAKER_00]: Sounds good to me.

02:02:59.328 --> 02:03:00.609
[SPEAKER_00]: 100% down.

02:03:00.789 --> 02:03:02.229
[SPEAKER_05]: Check out the Jaco Fuel Cookies.

02:03:02.249 --> 02:03:03.929
[SPEAKER_05]: Check out the protein, the milk.

02:03:04.909 --> 02:03:05.430
[SPEAKER_05]: This is the stuff.

02:03:05.450 --> 02:03:09.630
[SPEAKER_05]: You can get it all over the place Walmart, high V, H-E-B, Maya.

02:03:10.131 --> 02:03:11.011
[SPEAKER_05]: All kinds of different stores.

02:03:11.231 --> 02:03:13.411
[SPEAKER_05]: Check it out or check out JacoFuel.com.

02:03:13.491 --> 02:03:14.091
[SPEAKER_05]: We got you covered.

02:03:14.371 --> 02:03:15.172
[SPEAKER_05]: We got the good stuff.

02:03:16.452 --> 02:03:18.072
[SPEAKER_05]: Also, origin USA.com.

02:03:18.812 --> 02:03:21.213
[SPEAKER_05]: We are making jeans, boots.

02:03:23.420 --> 02:03:26.124
[SPEAKER_05]: hoodies, t-shirts, pants.

02:03:26.525 --> 02:03:28.588
[SPEAKER_05]: Cause not just jeans, you know.

02:03:29.349 --> 02:03:32.374
[SPEAKER_05]: You've seen me on stage at a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, yeah, from time to time.

02:03:32.394 --> 02:03:33.395
[SPEAKER_05]: To, yeah, guess what I'm wearing.

02:03:34.116 --> 02:03:34.937
[SPEAKER_05]: Origin pants.

02:03:35.158 --> 02:03:35.699
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

02:03:35.739 --> 02:03:37.081
[SPEAKER_05]: Do they look good to go?

02:03:37.341 --> 02:03:37.902
[SPEAKER_01]: They're good to go.

02:03:37.922 --> 02:03:39.184
[SPEAKER_01]: Square to, square to, square to, yeah.

02:03:39.464 --> 02:03:42.387
[SPEAKER_00]: professional, professional, but not over the top.

02:03:42.767 --> 02:03:45.029
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, doing doing a lot, but not too much.

02:03:45.109 --> 02:03:46.590
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a little bit of that guy.

02:03:47.251 --> 02:03:48.692
[SPEAKER_05]: So all this up is 100% American made.

02:03:48.892 --> 02:03:51.134
[SPEAKER_05]: Check it out originusa.com.

02:03:51.375 --> 02:03:51.755
[SPEAKER_05]: Get some.

02:03:51.915 --> 02:03:52.496
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's true.

02:03:52.636 --> 02:03:53.877
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, Jocco is a store.

02:03:54.678 --> 02:03:56.659
[SPEAKER_01]: Dave Burke happens to be representing, by the way.

02:03:57.560 --> 02:04:00.342
[SPEAKER_01]: Call jockelstore.com so we can represent another shirt.

02:04:00.362 --> 02:04:02.103
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have discipline.

02:04:02.143 --> 02:04:06.285
[SPEAKER_05]: But just kind of FYI when you make anything with rooms on it and you don't give it to me.

02:04:06.665 --> 02:04:07.786
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, violation.

02:04:07.826 --> 02:04:08.146
[SPEAKER_01]: Violet.

02:04:08.246 --> 02:04:08.446
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

02:04:08.727 --> 02:04:09.027
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

02:04:09.107 --> 02:04:09.567
[SPEAKER_01]: Good tip.

02:04:09.807 --> 02:04:10.768
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

02:04:10.888 --> 02:04:12.489
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense to me completely.

02:04:12.509 --> 02:04:13.529
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a good one.

02:04:13.649 --> 02:04:14.110
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, yeah.

02:04:14.250 --> 02:04:16.131
[SPEAKER_01]: Discipline equals freedom when we're representing.

02:04:16.151 --> 02:04:19.733
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this way we can get our stuff some new stuff.

02:04:21.094 --> 02:04:21.674
[SPEAKER_01]: Get after it.

02:04:22.214 --> 02:04:22.875
[SPEAKER_01]: Stand by it again.

02:04:24.015 --> 02:04:24.555
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's stuff.

02:04:24.775 --> 02:04:25.936
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, new stuff has been off.

02:04:26.236 --> 02:04:27.817
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I know, but they're new.

02:04:27.917 --> 02:04:28.477
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, new, new.

02:04:28.677 --> 02:04:30.858
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, coming out, getting nuts.

02:04:31.098 --> 02:04:33.679
[SPEAKER_01]: Give me like a week or so, you know, they'll be ready.

02:04:34.380 --> 02:04:34.520
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

02:04:35.080 --> 02:04:38.322
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, shirt locker, sweat Dave's wearing, new design every month.

02:04:38.402 --> 02:04:39.362
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the current month.

02:04:39.782 --> 02:04:41.043
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is this month's one, right?

02:04:41.443 --> 02:04:41.923
[SPEAKER_01]: Just came in.

02:04:42.103 --> 02:04:42.504
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.

02:04:42.744 --> 02:04:43.444
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

02:04:43.484 --> 02:04:44.685
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

02:04:45.145 --> 02:04:46.585
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, cool designs.

02:04:47.126 --> 02:04:49.267
[SPEAKER_01]: Jockel seems to like, apparently, but anyway.

02:04:49.347 --> 02:04:50.627
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all in JockelStore.com.

02:04:50.667 --> 02:04:51.668
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can get it.

02:04:52.188 --> 02:04:52.929
[SPEAKER_05]: check those out.

02:04:54.391 --> 02:04:57.995
[SPEAKER_05]: Books obviously, there's a book called The Need to Lead, Dave Burke.

02:04:59.417 --> 02:05:07.586
[SPEAKER_05]: It is officially live October 21st, 2025, 10 years after the book extreme ownership came out.

02:05:08.567 --> 02:05:11.951
[SPEAKER_05]: So, and it's actually 10 years to the day that I left Romadi.

02:05:13.052 --> 02:05:18.413
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's just coincidence, but I don't think it's coincidence that it's releasing 10 years after extreme ownership.

02:05:18.453 --> 02:05:25.915
[SPEAKER_05]: That's planned So check out the book get the first edition You know, not having a first edition.

02:05:25.935 --> 02:05:27.315
[SPEAKER_05]: Just lame.

02:05:27.596 --> 02:05:33.097
[SPEAKER_05]: So order the first edition I I want this book to crush cuz there's a lot of good messages in it.

02:05:33.257 --> 02:05:36.178
[SPEAKER_05]: So check it out Also I've written a bunch of books about leadership.

02:05:36.198 --> 02:05:37.478
[SPEAKER_05]: You can check those out as well.

02:05:37.518 --> 02:05:41.819
[SPEAKER_05]: And a bunch of kids books One one series of kids books getting turned into a movie

02:05:43.557 --> 02:05:45.238
[SPEAKER_05]: How much of the movie have you seen Echo Trolls?

02:05:45.699 --> 02:05:46.059
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, half.

02:05:47.540 --> 02:05:48.421
[SPEAKER_01]: Half of the draft.

02:05:48.781 --> 02:05:49.462
[SPEAKER_05]: What's your judgement?

02:05:49.702 --> 02:05:50.602
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so far so good.

02:05:50.963 --> 02:05:56.827
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it was so good I told you this that I didn't want to watch the other half because it was so good.

02:05:56.887 --> 02:05:57.227
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

02:05:57.307 --> 02:06:01.230
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like to, you know, I like to get the whole brand of the whole deal.

02:06:01.330 --> 02:06:03.272
[SPEAKER_05]: You saw nothing to see yourself in it though.

02:06:03.492 --> 02:06:03.752
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes sir.

02:06:07.695 --> 02:06:18.762
[SPEAKER_05]: Because it kind of like, you know, you know, you're kind of like sitting in your in the couch Yeah, and then you kind of sat up You know, you kind of like there it was bro Freak at hype was the hype level was real.

02:06:18.842 --> 02:06:27.547
[SPEAKER_01]: I look all the the people who Made that movie really did a good job on that part all parts really, but you know that was a stand-up right for me

02:06:28.848 --> 02:06:31.051
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, Jack, Dave Burke, you've seen hat.

02:06:31.351 --> 02:06:32.312
[SPEAKER_03]: I've seen a bunch of assessment.

02:06:32.372 --> 02:06:33.193
[SPEAKER_05]: It's fine.

02:06:33.814 --> 02:06:34.434
[SPEAKER_05]: I cannot wait.

02:06:35.776 --> 02:06:37.938
[SPEAKER_05]: It's so good, Jack.

02:06:38.058 --> 02:06:41.281
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, in the meantime, because that movie's not going to be out for a while, because that's the way the world works.

02:06:41.722 --> 02:06:43.904
[SPEAKER_05]: Just like the publishing industry with books.

02:06:44.124 --> 02:06:45.606
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, when did you win when you dealt with this book?

02:06:45.646 --> 02:06:46.547
[SPEAKER_05]: This is years, yeah.

02:06:46.927 --> 02:06:48.830
[SPEAKER_05]: A year old that you were down with it a year ago.

02:06:48.850 --> 02:06:51.673
[SPEAKER_05]: This book was completed a year ago.

02:06:51.853 --> 02:06:53.415
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so that's the way it works.

02:06:53.555 --> 02:07:03.767
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the way the industry works The same thing with the movie, but you don't have to wait for the movie for your kids You can get in these books right now and have that impact

02:07:04.728 --> 02:07:10.049
[SPEAKER_05]: Also, echelon front, the lessons that we talked about today, leadership lessons, this is what we do for a living.

02:07:10.529 --> 02:07:11.369
[SPEAKER_05]: We teach leadership.

02:07:12.270 --> 02:07:16.990
[SPEAKER_05]: We teach those leadership skills that we talk about, and we do it inside all kinds of organizations.

02:07:17.291 --> 02:07:23.672
[SPEAKER_05]: From literally the biggest organizations in the world to little tiny organizations and teams around the world.

02:07:23.992 --> 02:07:29.973
[SPEAKER_05]: So, if you need help inside your organization with problems that you have, those problems or leadership problems, we will help you solve them.

02:07:31.497 --> 02:07:32.678
[SPEAKER_05]: Good answer on front.com.

02:07:33.178 --> 02:07:35.400
[SPEAKER_05]: We can also help you with your skillset online.

02:07:36.041 --> 02:07:39.183
[SPEAKER_05]: We have an online training platform, extremeownership.com.

02:07:39.504 --> 02:07:44.948
[SPEAKER_05]: So where we teach these skills, and we teach them via an online training protocol.

02:07:45.228 --> 02:07:46.409
[SPEAKER_05]: So check that out as well.

02:07:48.611 --> 02:07:49.012
[SPEAKER_05]: Also,

02:07:51.400 --> 02:07:56.925
[SPEAKER_05]: If you want to help service members, active and retired, you want to help out.

02:07:57.025 --> 02:08:00.928
[SPEAKER_05]: Their families, gold star families, check out Mark Lee's mom, mom, Lee.

02:08:01.088 --> 02:08:02.409
[SPEAKER_05]: Got an amazing charity organization.

02:08:02.449 --> 02:08:05.992
[SPEAKER_05]: If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to americasmideaworg.org.

02:08:08.560 --> 02:08:10.622
[SPEAKER_05]: Also check out heroes in horses.org.

02:08:11.302 --> 02:08:16.026
[SPEAKER_05]: Micah Finks got his program up in Montana helping veterans straighten out their souls.

02:08:17.387 --> 02:08:20.850
[SPEAKER_05]: And then Jimmy May's organization, beyond the brotherhood.org, check that one out.

02:08:21.470 --> 02:08:23.612
[SPEAKER_05]: RamadiReunion20.com.

02:08:23.772 --> 02:08:24.433
[SPEAKER_05]: This is important.

02:08:25.253 --> 02:08:40.058
[SPEAKER_05]: So, if you were in Ramadi when the 1-1 AD was there, if you were an attachment, if you were actively underneath the 1-1 AD, if you serve there in any capacity or your family member served there, if your gold star family,

02:08:40.878 --> 02:08:45.560
[SPEAKER_05]: Everybody would love for you to show up in Texas, January 16th and 17th, 2026.

02:08:45.760 --> 02:08:53.424
[SPEAKER_05]: It is the 20th anniversary of that battle and the 11 AD is hosting a massive reunion down in Texas.

02:08:54.065 --> 02:08:58.507
[SPEAKER_05]: So check out Ramadireunion20.com and register.

02:08:59.988 --> 02:09:04.652
[SPEAKER_05]: Because we got to figure out how many hotel rooms to book and all that kind of stuff.

02:09:05.312 --> 02:09:10.016
[SPEAKER_05]: And General McFarland, who is our leader there, is leading this charge as well.

02:09:10.817 --> 02:09:15.501
[SPEAKER_05]: So please, if you have a family member that fought in Ramadi in O6,

02:09:17.262 --> 02:09:18.723
[SPEAKER_05]: Then let them know.

02:09:18.943 --> 02:09:19.824
[SPEAKER_05]: We're trying to spread the word.

02:09:19.984 --> 02:09:21.004
[SPEAKER_05]: We want to see you all down there.

02:09:21.024 --> 02:09:24.886
[SPEAKER_05]: I think we got several hundred right now But want to see everybody.

02:09:25.166 --> 02:09:25.927
[SPEAKER_05]: So check that out.

02:09:26.167 --> 02:09:28.388
[SPEAKER_05]: Ramadhi reunion 20.com.

02:09:28.748 --> 02:09:40.255
[SPEAKER_05]: Also, if you want to connect with us, Dave He's on Twitter x. He's on Instagram at David R. Burke and For us Check out jacodacom and on social media

02:09:41.615 --> 02:09:43.436
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm at Jocko-Willink, Ecosetico-Trolls.

02:09:43.856 --> 02:09:48.338
[SPEAKER_05]: Just be careful because there's a damn algorithm that's trying to crush your soul and steal your mind.

02:09:48.839 --> 02:09:49.559
[SPEAKER_05]: Don't let that happen.

02:09:50.979 --> 02:09:54.201
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks to all of our Uniform Services Army, Navy Air Force Marine Corps.

02:09:55.922 --> 02:09:56.342
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for...

02:09:57.637 --> 02:10:03.259
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, thanks for feeling the need to lead and then stepping up and doing it and protecting our way of life.

02:10:03.639 --> 02:10:17.123
[SPEAKER_05]: Also, thanks to our police law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correction officers, boardup, patrol, secret service, as well as all other first responders, thanks for stepping up as well and leading in order to protect us here on the home front.

02:10:17.983 --> 02:10:22.905
[SPEAKER_05]: And everyone else out there who's one more quote from Dave Brooks book.

02:10:24.625 --> 02:10:29.809
[SPEAKER_05]: it says, if self-assessment had a nemesis, it would be the ego.

02:10:30.790 --> 02:10:37.415
[SPEAKER_05]: The ego does not suppose any problem might lie within, but instead seeks to place blame externally.

02:10:38.977 --> 02:10:44.121
[SPEAKER_05]: Shaving the ego aside, we can successfully ask ourselves, what is truly going on?

02:10:45.636 --> 02:10:48.778
[SPEAKER_05]: Where is my responsibility and ownership in this situation?

02:10:49.099 --> 02:10:50.960
[SPEAKER_05]: Can I be doing something differently?

02:10:51.260 --> 02:10:52.461
[SPEAKER_05]: How can I improve?

02:10:52.781 --> 02:10:54.162
[SPEAKER_05]: Where am I out of balance?

02:10:54.623 --> 02:11:00.887
[SPEAKER_05]: How can I be of service to my fellow Marines instead of thinking I am superior to them?

02:11:02.608 --> 02:11:07.532
[SPEAKER_05]: All the questions we must ask ourselves get stifled when our egos take over.

02:11:08.793 --> 02:11:14.237
[SPEAKER_05]: And without that brutally honest self-assessment failure becomes imminent.

02:11:15.623 --> 02:11:16.104
[SPEAKER_05]: end quote.

02:11:18.126 --> 02:11:19.007
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's what we got to do.

02:11:20.929 --> 02:11:24.392
[SPEAKER_05]: Keep our egos and check and keep trying to improve.

02:11:24.753 --> 02:11:25.754
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's all we've got for tonight.

02:11:25.774 --> 02:11:28.757
[SPEAKER_05]: Until next time, this is Dave and Echo and Jocco.