507: Leadership and Accountability at the VA. With Secretary Doug Collins

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[SPEAKER_02]: This is Jocca podcast number 507 with echo Charles and me, Jocca willing.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Good evening, Jocca.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.

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[SPEAKER_02]: A veteran committed suicide by setting himself on fire in front of a New Jersey VA clinic after staff at the clinic repeatedly failed to ensure he received adequate mental health care and investigation of the death found.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Department of Veterans Affairs staff canceled an appointment, Charles Ingram, had in fall 2015 because a provider was unavailable, didn't follow up to reschedule.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And when he walked into the clinic to ask for an appointment, they didn't schedule it until three months later, the VA Inspector General found.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Ingram, a 51-year-old Gulf War veteran had been approved to receive treatment at a non-VA facility, but no one at VA contacted him or scheduled an appointment.

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[SPEAKER_02]: In March 2016, shortly before his VA appointment, Ingram went into the clinic in Northfield, New Jersey,

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[SPEAKER_02]: The clinic was closed at the time.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Staff failed to show up on no shows, clinic cancellations, termination of services and non-VA care coordination consults as required.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The Inspector General wrote in a report released Wednesday.

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[SPEAKER_02]: This led to a lack of ordered mental health therapy and necessary medications and may have contributed to his distress.

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[SPEAKER_02]: that right there is from a USA today article from 2017 and the article goes on to say that after the death of VA, quote, allocated more clinical resources to the clinic, remove the hospital director overseeing the facility and then send you an instituted same-day mental health services for urgent cases and quote.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so some lessons were learned, but clearly at a devastating cost,

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[SPEAKER_02]: And the VA is a massive organization with massive responsibilities, first and foremost, obviously supporting our veterans.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And here's another quote.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And this one is from an interview from August 6th, 2025 from a YouTube channel called About Face Veterans.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And it says this quote, I sent the VA an email.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They said they would send someone out to give me an assessment.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And they came out and they gave me an assessment.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And they said I needed inpatient rehab.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They told me, and they talked to the judge, and they got the judge to let me turn my plea of not guilty into treatment and lieu of a conviction.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The VA literally saved my life.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The only two stops left for me were death and prison, and the VA made sure I had options.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It was just up to me to put in the work and the quote.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, when functioning correctly, the VA absolutely saves lives and takes care of our veterans, but it is no easy task.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And like any endeavor, leadership is the most important factor in the mission.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The mission success or mission failure.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And the leader currently in charge of the Department of Veterans Affairs is Secretary Doug Collins.

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[SPEAKER_02]: He's been a pastor, a lawyer,

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[SPEAKER_02]: maybe we'll hold that against him.

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[SPEAKER_02]: A representative in Georgia State House and a U.S.

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[SPEAKER_02]: representative for Georgia's ninth congressional district, he served in the Navy.

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[SPEAKER_02]: He's currently serving as a Colonel in the U.S.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Air Force Reserve in addition to his duties serving our veterans as Secretary of Veterans Affairs affairs.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And it's an honor to have him with us here tonight to share his experiences and his perspectives and what's happening today in the VA.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Mr. Secretary, thank you for joining us.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's honored to have you here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's my honor, but here we go.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Now I know you've been doing a decent amount of podcast lately, which is awesome.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's awesome that we have some of our people inside of our government that are willing to just go out and do long-form podcasts, which it seems like in the past, the government was very scared to do.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, sit there and have conversations people, it's very threatening.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But let's just do a little bit of background for you, it's just a little bit about how you grew up, where you're from, et cetera, Georgia, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Georgia.

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[SPEAKER_01]: No Georgia.

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[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I still live there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I've been all over the world, but uh, North Georgia's home.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so my brides at and we were been there for ever.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She's went in DC right now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a great kids are there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I grew up in a sort of fairly just middle-class, lower middle-class home.

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[SPEAKER_01]: My dad is a state trooper from Georgia.

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[SPEAKER_01]: 31 years.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I grew up a trooper's kid believing I found the law the law one every time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean he's six foot to 250 pounds out of the Scrawling he's six foot four hundred thirty pounds looking away.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was he's his ideal fund was picking up in high school and put me in the back seat in the car of a troll call in the way home.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it was a mom work with senior adults and so a group there and just had an in order to decide to be involved in leadership just to go and being a part of our society of giving what we've had back.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Lisa and I got married right out of college

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[SPEAKER_01]: At that time, thought I was going to go on a different path.

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[SPEAKER_01]: God led a different way.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I had went into doing some sales, doing some work, and then, answer to call it a ministry.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Pastor for, got a master's, pastor for over 11 years.

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[SPEAKER_01]: During that time, I served a little bit in the Navy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, came out here to San Diego.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was my cot training, my commission officer training.

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[SPEAKER_02]: What year was that?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is that 93, it's very time frame.

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[SPEAKER_01]: 94 time frame.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and spent summer when it's a little bit of time up in Pendleton and doing a summer up there and then spent for a couple of years but I have a when we started to have kids my daughter has fine of effort my older daughter.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She started to race still with us but she works every day.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I wish I had her attitude and and it and

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[SPEAKER_01]: So there's some things going on in church going so it was a chance for me to decide I needed it because if the Navy wanted me to go full time and it just it was And I said and what were you doing in the Navy chop you were a chaplain in Chaplain can't have started and did you work with the Marine Corps when you were out here?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is so it's mostly you know really if you don't know from the outside the the Chaplain Corps Jack or mostly the Navy is supplying that to the Marine and it was a really a great time So I've had to really the benefit if you look at over time

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[SPEAKER_01]: I've been with Marines Navy and Air Force, so I've have a broad experience on each side.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I got out for a little while while I was passionate, but in 2002 I've been wanting to go back in for about a year and a half and then 2002 made it happen and I've been there for since 24 years.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I was at September 11th.

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[SPEAKER_01]: A little bit, it was, it was something I was missing it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when you're out in the most people feel this, I was at love being, you know, part of the Navy, I wanted to back in, but couldn't find a way, and that just heightened it even more.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's going forward to say, how I gotta get back in this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And internet time is also a transition from the church, been there 11 years, we got a great success at the church, but I've always felt like life is sort of a dirt road, old country dirt road from the mountains, so we're twisting.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and an opportunity opened up and it was just something my wife and I had settled in and she said something strong and I said yeah it is and I said we got to fix it and crazy enough you know it seems it was to go back to what I originally thought I was going to do back when we first got married and it's got a law school so here we are 38 years old I got three kids a wife who teaches school and I go back full-time to law school to leave the church my only income was reserved pay that I had once a month when I was at the 94th Air Wing down at Dobbins

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[SPEAKER_01]: And and your wife agreed on this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I mean actually pretty cool.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what's the way see how how did you get to this point?

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you've got a good life going you got things squared away.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You're doing good things doing the Lord's work Yep, and then one day she recognizes that hey something's wrong

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[SPEAKER_01]: It had been going on for a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was one of those things that, you know, it was, again, from a faith perspective, it was just, I was leaving church and we'd have, you know, people come, people join, we'd had a building, probably, they were all going well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But by the one time I was about a mile or two down the road, kids in the car, it was just, it was just a home sick feeling.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was just like something's missing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so one day, we're at home, she teach at school, and I was at the church, and she had to go to a doctor's woman and I had stayed at the house that day.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And she got back and I just said I said I'm going to say and I said I'm miserable and she said and the course in Lisa 4 might my little wife is 5 foot 2 So nothing she looked into and then Josh she looks actually I mean so what are you going to do about it?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thanks honey.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, where's that hug and saying, oh, I know you're there and it was a way to go do about it And that's when we just sat down and we just had an honest conversation about where we were and what we wanted to do and we need something was sort of up I'd learned a lot and I think years I've said this before and for young people listening to this podcast I don't care where you're at and especially if you're in college years You think you got the world map out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's your first couple years in the military.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You got your you know, your path the general's already there

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right um look at it, but don't be afraid to realize their seasons in life and sometimes you're not ready And for me if I ever become a lawyer I believe back in the late 80s when I thought I was going to I believe in fullness I would have probably been divorced Because sometimes ambition

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[SPEAKER_01]: gets the better of you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You look beyond what you can do in handle.

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[SPEAKER_01]: God knew that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so he spent, I spent years in ministry working with senior adults and dealing with death and dealing with a lot of issues having children.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So when I started back that, it opened the door.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The interesting thing is for about a year and a half I've been really feeling miserable.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The minute we, she and I had that conversation, and we decided that that was the path that I was gonna leave the church and if I got accepted, it was relief.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because I knew it was the right thing to do.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's one of the reasons I wanted to ask you that question because I hear from a lot of people, a lot of people ask me questions and that's a question that I get people, I guess it's similar to what people would call the midlife crisis, I guess you weren't quite the midlife yet, but you were getting close.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes when people get to the midlife crisis, they do really dumb things.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like they don't share the fact that they're having some thoughts in their head with their spouse, which if you don't do that, now you're going to make it a move without your spouse and you're going to put real problems.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just a good way to face that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: the reality of what you're feeling and where you're at and where you want to be and doing something about it like your wife said.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it is.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it was that emotion.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I, you know, doing, you know, chaplaincy and being a military and also and so even the one thing that you should tell couples when they got together and if somebody's listening to it and they, you know, somebody look everybody struggles.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody has issues everybody.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's not all, you know, great days and you wake up in a new way.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I've always told them and I stick to this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not how you make love.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's how you make war.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and it's how you handle the difficulties.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody can do the other part, but it's how you handle the conversations and honest conversations between you and your spouse, or you and your partner, whatever it may be.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't have those honest conversations and there's a relationship there that breeds that then you're really two separate people living in the same place.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And when she was backing, she's backing me completely and everything, but we went into law school,

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[SPEAKER_01]: I remember making my sandwiches.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'd go down and get on the bus.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we cut back everything About a year and my first year of law school a state house seat that I I'd always Dabbled in politics is another list.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'd always been around it and then it was something I was very much interested It came open and so I went to this meeting one morning and I heard that this they weren't gonna be running So I said okay, I'll solve this you know the bug gets inside of you I said I'm gonna call least on the way home and then

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[SPEAKER_01]: I said, Lisa's 2006.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I said, hey, you know, just stay still not going to run in and you know, there's going to be a seat open in the wall and again here she goes again She says, well, not be your time

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[SPEAKER_01]: So first year law school, I run for office, public office, stay house and Georgia.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And from there, it just sort of took on.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I passed that, finished my law school in three years.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Graduated in May to the bar in July, deployed to Iraq and August.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Found out I passed the bar on Halloween in Belad and came back started law practice.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The years later got elected to Congress.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So let's go let's just pause a little bit at a year so now you're in the air force.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so you finish law school.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Let me get this right.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You finish law school.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You take the bar and then you go on deployment.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And again you now you're going on deployment.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You go to the ballad and your chaplain.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but and your but your air force, but you're in blood and blood blood is like the big air brace and Iraq.

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[SPEAKER_02]: What was your what was your mission there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was chaplain.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was not time flatline chaplain.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it was great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: For me, it was one of the things where I was, you know, put it at a time that was just after the search, you know, just we're drawing down, there's still a lot of action, but a lot became this sort of the center point for all, uh, especially on my mask owls, other coming out of the, the, the kind.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If you remember back in that summer, uh, right before I got there, about sshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshshsh

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[SPEAKER_01]: about four weeks before I got there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was the eight or eight.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was the bomb that blew up and I think it was Mosul.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was north of us and it was the like one of the mayors and all of them they were the town meeting and the suicide bomb blew up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I get to it's sort of I remember seeing that on the when I get to below many of those were there in our hospital and so it was just like you brought it all around.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I really start reality so it not I would go out and I'll add free basic I ran the you know all around the flat lines went over the army side went on special ops We had I was there chaplain when we went over Went out with the other folks on in our security forces one of the first times air force was actually taking over perimeter duty since Vietnam

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[SPEAKER_01]: in that time so it was a really a challenge and they I would go out and get with them and I go out and this overwatched hours and they loved it because they would get to practice they would get to fire if I was coming out because they could say oh the child was here we're gonna fire we're gonna we're gonna do laughter so they the one of the gates had said it gave me my calls was white reaper white reaper

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[SPEAKER_01]: So you could hear him on the right and white weaver's here white weaver's here white weaver's here Get up though, and it was it was that's an interesting call side for the chat Yeah, I thought it was pretty cool, too, but you know, it was it was there, but but so it was it was something I Let me go into everything chaplains.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I could have went after graduate special Oscar I could have already started transition if I wanted to to go to the jack core had no desire to

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was where I believed I was supposed to be, and so I would get to go and go into the talk, go into the other places, and just be there and talk, go into the control tower, and not when the planes are coming, and it gave me a chance to get into their life, understand what they were doing, but also talk, there was so many stories.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I had several groups that came in and I watched, you know, units come in.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I remember, and it just instilled in me that this country is still, you know, blessed with some of the greatest young people in the world coming forward on how to young lady who had was late for the deployment.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and I had been going around to this in a solver and I didn't recognize her and I because I was at those gates every night.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so I asked her I said, where are you?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I hadn't seen you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I said, where are you been?

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[SPEAKER_01]: She said, why just got here?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I said, well, why'd you just get here?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I said, you know, your unit's been here about a month month now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She said, I just have a baby.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And she had a six month old.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so she had worked up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I said, and I asked her, and my first thought was, you know, here I'm a dad.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I

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[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you just defer to the next deployment?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I said, you know, she said, this is my unit.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I said, I'm supposed to come with.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so here was an interesting thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Here in the middle of the night, I would go by and see her about two to three times a week.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And she would show me pictures and videos.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I actually watched her little one, you know, even I think caught even a first sort of step one night.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, here we are both in tears in the middle of the desert.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But it just, but she was there wanting to do her job.

15:28.580 --> 15:31.003
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it was I enjoyed it.

15:31.023 --> 15:36.729
[SPEAKER_01]: We got I did travel a little bit in the country But it just for me now.

15:36.769 --> 15:48.500
[SPEAKER_01]: It also just deepens my Understanding what we do at the VA but it was a massive base The hospital out there is pretty amazing and what we did if you came under there was the

15:49.721 --> 15:53.762
[SPEAKER_01]: Discussion, if many people have this vision of the flag that is coming.

15:54.282 --> 15:56.163
[SPEAKER_01]: It's called the heroes highway was what it was.

15:56.383 --> 15:58.023
[SPEAKER_01]: It's coming from the helicopters into the hospital.

15:58.063 --> 16:02.384
[SPEAKER_01]: And they said, if you came in under that flag, a lot, you were breathing.

16:02.544 --> 16:08.246
[SPEAKER_01]: You were a lot that you were, we had a 98% survival rate to get you to the next stop.

16:09.166 --> 16:11.427
[SPEAKER_01]: And Joke, I was, there was many nights that I was there.

16:11.467 --> 16:13.488
[SPEAKER_01]: We had units that were messed up.

16:14.309 --> 16:16.970
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was with a lot of them.

16:17.050 --> 16:20.031
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was one time I, and I still got the paper, the stars and stripes.

16:20.051 --> 16:37.840
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you used to, if you remember, they used to put the pictures of the ceased in there, and if there's a lot of their sum, but some weeks are wondering, and I remember one week, I picked up the paper, I was at the D-Fak and picked up the paper and looked in and opened it up, and there were five faces that I knew that I had either been by their bedside,

16:39.702 --> 16:42.985
[SPEAKER_01]: one who was, I, I still see his face, blonde hair blew out.

16:44.526 --> 16:46.127
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was struggling.

16:47.008 --> 16:51.432
[SPEAKER_01]: And his unit, some of his other guys who knew he got his idea tag.

16:52.352 --> 16:54.634
[SPEAKER_01]: And all they want to do is know how he was.

16:55.515 --> 17:03.701
[SPEAKER_01]: And he got back, we were alive, but my understanding is he made it back to the States and my understanding is, at least for what we thought was his family got to be with him.

17:04.341 --> 17:04.602
[SPEAKER_01]: But,

17:05.460 --> 17:16.204
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, those are the kind of things that you see and it's infected me and it affected how we operate, but there's also the chaplains, I mean, there's sometimes, you know, there's always this believable.

17:16.444 --> 17:32.170
[SPEAKER_01]: The chaplains, the throwing the Bible out to your cumbersome, the chaplains has a unique role in our military and it's there to give you a place to go to talk to that confidential communication, to talk, to get you through and be prepared.

17:32.190 --> 17:33.511
[SPEAKER_01]: I always said that I was part of readiness.

17:34.211 --> 17:35.392
[SPEAKER_01]: that my job was to keep you ready.

17:35.672 --> 17:37.954
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember one guy I got called early one morning.

17:37.974 --> 17:40.676
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm supposed to get off at 7 o'clock that morning.

17:41.276 --> 17:41.777
[SPEAKER_01]: I get a call at 6.45.

17:41.857 --> 17:43.878
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the hate chap you need to come by the security.

17:44.599 --> 17:45.580
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, okay, what's up?

17:45.680 --> 17:48.482
[SPEAKER_01]: They said, we got a guy here that we don't know what to do with.

17:48.962 --> 17:49.923
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, okay, so I went over.

17:51.424 --> 17:53.686
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is still just I don't know you saying it before as well.

17:54.026 --> 17:54.586
[SPEAKER_01]: We get there.

17:55.067 --> 17:57.148
[SPEAKER_01]: And this guy, I said, okay, what's wrong when he comes out there?

17:57.388 --> 17:58.850
[SPEAKER_01]: He just landed in country.

17:59.630 --> 18:04.776
[SPEAKER_01]: made it to the phone, calling home, and his wife says she wants the divorce.

18:05.917 --> 18:06.918
[SPEAKER_01]: Just made it into the country.

18:08.079 --> 18:11.563
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't understand that thought.

18:11.923 --> 18:15.187
[SPEAKER_01]: I do not understand hating, but in my mind, somebody that bad.

18:15.978 --> 18:20.102
[SPEAKER_01]: that they're getting ready to go out and you're sending this and this is an infantry and army.

18:20.562 --> 18:23.445
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I talked with him for several hours because he was destroyed.

18:24.306 --> 18:26.548
[SPEAKER_01]: We finally I think we just got to the point where we had to send him home.

18:27.069 --> 18:28.490
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he was just, it was just not fair.

18:28.890 --> 18:30.712
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's a readiness issue.

18:31.132 --> 18:34.235
[SPEAKER_01]: And if, if you're miles not ready, I always told people in there's a lot of people I just talked about.

18:34.816 --> 18:38.940
[SPEAKER_01]: And sort of sometimes drastically so the reserves and the weekend warriors and stuff like that.

18:39.260 --> 18:45.484
[SPEAKER_01]: frankly, if you look at our DOD set up now, our DOW now on Department of War, correct yourself, Mr. Secretary.

18:45.524 --> 18:55.470
[SPEAKER_01]: Director of War, people get up and people get up and the boss will say something, so Matt and I that part of the war is they're so integrated that it's just it's just not even you know, look.

18:56.350 --> 19:01.995
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I used to do, when I do, uh, the newcomers breathe, I say, look, you come in and I said, here's what's going to happen.

19:02.015 --> 19:02.936
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to leave them Friday not.

19:02.956 --> 19:07.961
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be here for Saturday and they said, the minute you walk up, you get out the door and you get on base, uh, the kids are going to get sick.

19:08.001 --> 19:08.802
[SPEAKER_01]: They're always going to run away.

19:08.862 --> 19:09.743
[SPEAKER_01]: The car is not going to current.

19:10.043 --> 19:11.164
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's all going to happen on the weekend.

19:11.184 --> 19:11.804
[SPEAKER_01]: You're supposed to be here.

19:12.525 --> 19:14.386
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, so just get ready, it's gonna happen.

19:14.987 --> 19:18.649
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, when you walk them through that, so a blog was an interesting experience.

19:18.669 --> 19:25.193
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, of course, we were, you know, more to read of it was sort of a moniker, a nickname of a blog.

19:26.194 --> 19:29.596
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew I had survived somebody who was laughing about this the other day.

19:29.996 --> 19:40.363
[SPEAKER_01]: You knew you were in made it, you know, to that certain point of being in the country, when about the first two or three days, you know, the siren to go off and you start looking, okay, what I need to go after about three or four days like, you know, whatever.

19:42.024 --> 19:43.045
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I don't give anything.

19:43.506 --> 19:44.467
[SPEAKER_01]: I never forget the last night.

19:44.507 --> 19:44.847
[SPEAKER_01]: I was there.

19:45.267 --> 19:45.808
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm packing.

19:45.848 --> 19:46.829
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, get stuff together.

19:46.889 --> 19:47.730
[SPEAKER_01]: I got my bill.

19:47.790 --> 19:48.310
[SPEAKER_01]: I got my ticket.

19:48.370 --> 19:49.972
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go and that's the one thirty more.

19:50.012 --> 19:50.492
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm ready to go.

19:50.512 --> 19:54.997
[SPEAKER_01]: How long was your deployment over there from Indivolgas to the back of the end of January?

19:55.517 --> 19:56.158
[SPEAKER_01]: It's your time for him.

19:56.498 --> 20:02.684
[SPEAKER_01]: So I covered all the football season all of you know, and then that, but I actually made a great connection point with with tricks guy go out and and be with him.

20:04.568 --> 20:14.234
[SPEAKER_01]: But I got there in that night, the course of Siren of course goes off and I didn't think anything about it because we're in those big, you know, cement areas and this one's right.

20:14.575 --> 20:16.036
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was like, wow.

20:16.516 --> 20:17.737
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was like blowing up stuff.

20:18.037 --> 20:25.222
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was, well, come to find out is about 60 70 yards on the other side near the flight line, the whole rat and G. And then, and then I'm saying, well, okay, that was pretty close.

20:25.242 --> 20:26.543
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you're talking about.

20:26.583 --> 20:32.647
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then about, not three minutes later, I mean, even closer on the other side is like,

20:33.670 --> 20:33.930
[SPEAKER_01]: Really?

20:33.950 --> 20:38.096
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, if you're going to get me now, you're going to just bat more and just win that.

20:38.316 --> 20:38.957
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting out here.

20:39.057 --> 20:45.665
[SPEAKER_01]: But you just get to see a cross-country section of country of our life and our people and from a chappling perspective.

20:46.426 --> 20:48.128
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's sometimes just people need to talk.

20:49.049 --> 20:53.512
[SPEAKER_01]: I tell you one of the interesting cases, I saw one that I was at the late night beef as my supper and I was in there.

20:54.012 --> 21:05.680
[SPEAKER_01]: Just sitting around talking and and went and sat down and I also didn't see this guy walking toward me had Army, PTO and they came up and he said, he said, hey, he said, you're a chaplain, aren't you?

21:05.960 --> 21:08.842
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, yeah, and he said, he said, he said, he said, I'm an army chaplain.

21:10.159 --> 21:19.713
[SPEAKER_01]: And, but at some point, you just said something wasn't right and he sat down and we began to talk and he had not been home.

21:20.193 --> 21:25.221
[SPEAKER_01]: He had only been home with free phrases with, he had been home like eight months and almost three years.

21:26.807 --> 21:27.307
[SPEAKER_01]: He was fraud.

21:28.208 --> 21:29.408
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, God love him.

21:29.668 --> 21:30.069
[SPEAKER_01]: He tried.

21:30.869 --> 21:33.670
[SPEAKER_01]: And we just sat there and talked for almost two hours.

21:34.191 --> 21:35.631
[SPEAKER_01]: I put him in, I had a vehicle.

21:35.671 --> 21:43.515
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was talking back to his parents, who Chin said, look, in the next morning, I tried to get, I did.

21:43.555 --> 21:44.896
[SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully I think he got out.

21:45.496 --> 21:46.897
[SPEAKER_01]: I went and told his folks, he said, he's gone.

21:47.877 --> 21:49.738
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not good for himself.

21:49.778 --> 21:50.438
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not good for us.

21:50.839 --> 21:53.860
[SPEAKER_01]: Because he was just, I mean, at the three year, I mean, he was, you know,

21:58.268 --> 22:01.350
[SPEAKER_01]: bad, and this is the thing that everybody forgets these days.

22:02.270 --> 22:03.751
[SPEAKER_01]: War is so different.

22:04.571 --> 22:06.172
[SPEAKER_01]: Our deployments are so different.

22:07.333 --> 22:11.875
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the cell phone, the sat phone, the zoom.

22:12.155 --> 22:15.737
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Lisa and I had a deal.

22:16.157 --> 22:18.338
[SPEAKER_01]: We did no video calls while I was in a round.

22:19.653 --> 22:21.496
[SPEAKER_01]: We just couldn't handle it.

22:21.617 --> 22:23.460
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't be there, but I could talk.

22:23.480 --> 22:27.047
[SPEAKER_01]: So we called and we had our phone time and we had to do that and I told the kids it's the kids wanted to talk.

22:27.407 --> 22:28.089
[SPEAKER_01]: They were younger than.

22:29.130 --> 22:32.096
[SPEAKER_01]: But I watched, you know, some of these folks that they were trying to still live too lives.

22:33.021 --> 22:55.793
[SPEAKER_02]: they were in any can't do that and it's terrible yeah my my wife called me as an Iraq or a 2006 and my wife you know sends me a message and says hey the kids want to see where you're sleeping you know my kids were like you know probably three four three five something like that young young kids and hey can you send a picture where you're sleeping at night and I'll sleep in you know in a little bed that was made out of plywood or whatever

22:56.814 --> 23:03.983
[SPEAKER_02]: And before I took the picture, I opened up a bag and pulled out a folder and took pictures of my family out and hung up the pictures.

23:04.664 --> 23:11.072
[SPEAKER_02]: Around my bed took the picture of what I slept and then took the pictures back down and put them back in the folder and put them away because

23:11.552 --> 23:26.100
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, same thing, I just couldn't, I didn't want to be thinking about, I mean, look, obviously, I love my family, but I didn't want to be thinking about my family when I've got to be thinking about the troops and my guys and the mission, and I just, you know, just didn't want to do it.

23:26.120 --> 23:40.288
[SPEAKER_02]: My wife and I were the same way we would talk, like, you know, probably want to wake on the phone for 10 minutes, and she told me that the water heater broke and, you know, whatever, but she, you know, just, she was going to handle it, and so I think that does make it very, very difficult.

23:40.848 --> 23:51.639
[SPEAKER_02]: And the other thing is is, you know, and I think this is bad for the military, but these The way we do deployments now like a World War II you're going until we come home.

23:51.799 --> 24:00.728
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I get yep, and that's that's just the way it is And when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, whatever that is whether it's a year, whether it's you know six months Whatever it's gonna be

24:01.489 --> 24:07.330
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, if you can get to there, you can go home and that does not seem like a great way to win wars.

24:07.490 --> 24:10.551
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, we haven't went one new wars with that particular procedure.

24:10.651 --> 24:11.391
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, think about it, man.

24:11.411 --> 24:12.932
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the count of the 362.

24:13.152 --> 24:13.392
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

24:14.192 --> 24:15.092
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it became the whole thing.

24:15.152 --> 24:20.854
[SPEAKER_01]: And how many, you know, got to that last 30, you know, or they, you know, it came up and it's just an issue.

24:20.954 --> 24:23.174
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's tough.

24:23.534 --> 24:30.996
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you talk about this, it's not just the, you know, deployments we've had and everything up, this translates into the very issues that we're seeing in my current job.

24:31.756 --> 24:37.040
[SPEAKER_01]: This just translates directly into, you know, how people are affected by that.

24:37.060 --> 24:47.366
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean you go you come home It's it's almost like you're living in these dual lives and and now you even get into it today when you have the quote remote control wars And you have the drones.

24:47.406 --> 24:55.451
[SPEAKER_01]: You have uh, you know the stuff that we use all the time The you know unmanned aircraft those kind of things like that, but there's still people behind those.

24:55.531 --> 24:55.772
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

24:55.792 --> 24:56.512
[SPEAKER_02]: I got a friend that

24:58.301 --> 25:03.885
[SPEAKER_02]: back state side killed a bunch of, you know, enemy fighters on a daily basis and he'd go home for dinner.

25:04.065 --> 25:04.225
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

25:04.605 --> 25:08.828
[SPEAKER_02]: And see his kids and, you know, take his kids to the dance recital and then the next day he's out killing people again.

25:09.168 --> 25:09.288
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

25:09.308 --> 25:10.629
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a different situation.

25:10.689 --> 25:11.590
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, what does that done?

25:11.610 --> 25:12.770
[SPEAKER_02]: What does that do to the human mind?

25:13.011 --> 25:13.511
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it does.

25:13.751 --> 25:22.757
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, and we're seeing some of the, and that was when, you know, there's been some odd discussion on the issues of that with, you know, you say, well, you never left X place.

25:23.237 --> 25:29.043
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, we're seeing PTS, we're seeing that kind of thing because, you know, sometimes you know, you look at us, they're doing this long term.

25:29.123 --> 25:35.449
[SPEAKER_01]: This has become, you know, sort of an invested kind of, you know, mission, if you would, you know, to be very generic.

25:35.509 --> 25:39.573
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's, it's something that they do and they have to do it every day and then they have to cut, cut that switch on and off.

25:40.294 --> 25:43.117
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's a different,

25:45.622 --> 25:49.185
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not something we've gotten to really good handle how do you handle that.

25:50.425 --> 25:54.348
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the areas that we're doing is we also have some of our shorter time frames now.

25:54.368 --> 26:06.537
[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing everything we can to, oh, we'll get you in for four years, we'll get you in for three, you know, six years, you know, and the reality is all of our studies are showing today that the, and this is just an interesting look.

26:07.217 --> 26:15.847
[SPEAKER_01]: that the shorter the in service time so the shorter the the four-year stand the six-year stand even you know what shorter are our most at risk.

26:17.086 --> 26:17.766
[SPEAKER_01]: later in life.

26:18.507 --> 26:33.632
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the 20, it's not those of us who've been in 24 years, and especially in the last 25 years have come in, it's still amazing to me too, how many people think they're right now that we're just quasi-piece kind of stuff, and we don't have anybody anywhere.

26:33.912 --> 26:37.333
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got people all over the place, and you can just publicly look at the paper and look at that.

26:37.874 --> 26:38.874
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's still going on.

26:39.914 --> 26:40.935
[SPEAKER_01]: The softest tempo is high.

26:42.015 --> 26:52.765
[SPEAKER_01]: And when they're in for three or four years in this high-drenaline high impact environment, and then they go back out in the world, and the world is not high-drenaline.

26:53.085 --> 26:54.126
[SPEAKER_01]: The world is not high-impact.

26:54.146 --> 26:55.367
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have your buddies beside you.

26:55.407 --> 26:56.628
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not have a common mission.

26:57.029 --> 26:58.310
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got to make choices again.

27:00.872 --> 27:06.798
[SPEAKER_01]: We've not had a chance to sort of what I call, we break, build, but not mend.

27:07.634 --> 27:10.315
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that's going to be the thing that we're having to really seriously look at.

27:10.575 --> 27:15.197
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not just frankly the newer veteran that statistic holds through all the way to Vietnam.

27:16.417 --> 27:26.161
[SPEAKER_01]: And people who have unfortunately, you know, chose death by suicide, even in their 50, 60s and older, there's just that percentage that very high percentage had shorter term in this month.

27:26.990 --> 27:27.771
[SPEAKER_01]: and sort of trim service.

27:28.131 --> 27:36.899
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's got to be something there, you know, that you got to look at, it might not be the, this, you know, one plus one equals the two kind of like, but there's a one and a half in there.

27:36.919 --> 27:37.920
[SPEAKER_02]: Got to put it in the calculus.

27:38.000 --> 27:38.300
[SPEAKER_01]: Get it.

27:39.181 --> 27:43.785
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, you're over in Belad and clearly a lot of casualties are coming through there.

27:44.585 --> 27:52.953
[SPEAKER_02]: And although most of them live, I mean, a lot of those guys they might live, but they're going to be, they got serious major wounds, physical wounds, mental wounds, the home on yards.

27:54.033 --> 27:55.393
[SPEAKER_02]: And, of course, not all of them make it.

27:55.413 --> 27:58.914
[SPEAKER_02]: You just mentioned that the stars are striped for five guys on the paper there.

28:00.694 --> 28:05.895
[SPEAKER_02]: As you know, this was 2008 that you're there, we'd already been in Iraq for five years.

28:07.555 --> 28:10.956
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you, as you weigh out, you've got to see what this costs.

28:11.916 --> 28:20.518
[SPEAKER_02]: And as you weigh that out, and as you look at what's going on in the world right now, it seems that we need to raise the bar quite a bit in terms of when we go to war.

28:22.657 --> 28:32.187
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what sort of stirred me more as we go past this is what's happened in the end results, the out years, okay, and sort of it's

28:33.753 --> 28:39.515
[SPEAKER_01]: A good movie, a good book that's always ends in a way that hooks you.

28:39.755 --> 28:43.897
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess it's the best way I can describe this, or it ends in a way that fitting to the calls.

28:44.717 --> 28:49.118
[SPEAKER_01]: And an end that doesn't fit sort of that whole area of how we're doing it.

28:49.438 --> 28:53.000
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the part that has become so disturbing for many of us.

28:54.160 --> 29:00.462
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm not mistaken, and a lot of time gone past, but it was less than two and a half

29:02.623 --> 29:05.424
[SPEAKER_01]: that we shut down a lot and turned it back up and pulled out.

29:05.504 --> 29:10.505
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just, I think it's 2010, 2010, 2011, and I thought about that to myself.

29:10.565 --> 29:14.926
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying about how much of our precious life was there.

29:15.326 --> 29:18.407
[SPEAKER_01]: And all of a sudden, you know, we're going, and we see what happened within.

29:18.947 --> 29:20.488
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just got asked this the other day.

29:21.468 --> 29:26.251
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyone that had been in Iraq knew that when we left, if we left completely, it was just a matter of time.

29:26.651 --> 29:35.257
[SPEAKER_02]: And anyone that had served in Afghanistan, I didn't serve in Afghanistan, but everyone that I knew that served in Afghanistan, said, oh, if we pull out of there, it's going to get overrun by the Taliban very quickly.

29:35.617 --> 29:43.842
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone thought that except for, I guess the official intelligence reports coming from the Pentagon, which said, no, no, the forces are ready and the Taliban doesn't stand a chance.

29:44.382 --> 29:45.603
[SPEAKER_02]: And they said, well, they might do something.

29:45.923 --> 29:46.764
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to take them seven days.

29:46.784 --> 29:48.425
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, actually they'll be there in three, yeah, it's game over.

29:48.652 --> 30:04.302
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah well by the time we acknowledge it was over so i think that's the that's the part of for me that yes it raises the barn where we should be and how we should be it also goes you know frankly from a perspective and i'm you know not in that chain of command but it but look at it from someone who serves is this idea you do it or don't

30:05.977 --> 30:18.039
[SPEAKER_01]: when you do it or don't, and this idea of this, you know, the idea that we're going to commit, then by God, you commit it, and you don't, you know, wonder well, we're going to commit partially here, and then we'll see what we can do.

30:18.059 --> 30:19.340
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be in trouble there.

30:19.480 --> 30:21.220
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's some some level of arrogance.

30:21.260 --> 30:32.723
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're a military leader and you think you can go into another country, and number one, you think you can do a clean job of just taking out the enemy and not causing collateral damage, not destroying a bunch of infrastructure, not killing

30:35.223 --> 30:39.681
[SPEAKER_02]: And then if you think you can go to another country and fight and you're not going to take any cash to choose yourself.

30:41.146 --> 30:49.529
[SPEAKER_02]: And finally, if you think that whatever your plan is that you came up with sitting back in your office in the Pentagon, and you think that's going to go that way, you're wrong on all counts.

30:50.190 --> 30:59.894
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if you're not seriously considering the worst possible outcome, you know, it's like you said with the National Guard, you guys are going to go, you know, for as weekend away, everything's going to go wrong.

31:00.234 --> 31:02.035
[SPEAKER_02]: That has to be your attitude when you're looking to go in the war.

31:02.095 --> 31:06.096
[SPEAKER_02]: That everything you think's going to happen is everything good that you think's going to happen is not going to go that way.

31:08.097 --> 31:09.257
[SPEAKER_02]: So you come back.

31:09.297 --> 31:12.378
[SPEAKER_02]: How's your transition come back to your America when you come back from below?

31:13.258 --> 31:16.499
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't really thought about it in these terms because that's one of the digital real issues we're dealing with right now.

31:17.199 --> 31:19.460
[SPEAKER_01]: For me, I just, it was suck it up and go.

31:19.480 --> 31:20.520
[SPEAKER_01]: I came back.

31:21.180 --> 31:22.421
[SPEAKER_01]: I have got my law degree now.

31:22.501 --> 31:23.761
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to start a law practice.

31:23.821 --> 31:24.261
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in them.

31:24.661 --> 31:26.061
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just getting sworn into my second.

31:26.081 --> 31:28.242
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, I got reelected to the office while I was in all right.

31:28.562 --> 31:36.151
[SPEAKER_02]: and how was the political thing like when you entered the political did the people come and like did start digging all the dirt and throwing a lot at you in the whole nine yards?

31:36.191 --> 31:37.513
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not early on.

31:37.733 --> 31:41.057
[SPEAKER_01]: It's early almost not as bad because you're in a local kind of state house kind of stuff.

31:41.077 --> 31:42.719
[SPEAKER_01]: You mean it's in North Georgia.

31:42.879 --> 31:45.102
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like said I was born and raised my dad, you know,

31:45.902 --> 31:49.505
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew a lot of folks who's in a sort of my backyard and if you would, where I live still live to this day.

31:50.505 --> 31:53.907
[SPEAKER_01]: Except when I'm trapped in DC, I just leave it with that.

31:54.788 --> 32:06.635
[SPEAKER_01]: That one has become the hard one for Lisa and I. We're not sure if we're newlyweds or we're empty nesters or who I'm, but we go for my house and Georgia which we live and like we've cried grew up in that area.

32:06.876 --> 32:10.918
[SPEAKER_01]: And now we go to a little condo in DC in which we rarely get to go out or do anything else.

32:10.958 --> 32:11.999
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like this is a whole different era.

32:13.860 --> 32:26.588
[SPEAKER_01]: But coming back, I'm the classic case of what's shouldn't I came in, went within 48 hours, at least to pick me up at the airport.

32:27.389 --> 32:32.232
[SPEAKER_01]: I went, we picked up the kids, we had a fifth time of the kids, well she and I spent that line of then I picked up the kids the next day.

32:34.173 --> 32:37.254
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was either the day after or the next day I went down to the capital.

32:37.274 --> 32:41.355
[SPEAKER_01]: I got sworn in for the session that it just started, began putting my paperwork.

32:41.375 --> 32:46.757
[SPEAKER_01]: Got my bar swearing in, got all this done in that first few weeks, started trying to start to practice.

32:47.277 --> 32:49.318
[SPEAKER_01]: We went right into our session, did everything.

32:49.938 --> 32:54.580
[SPEAKER_01]: Never once reflecting, you know, hey, maybe I need to take a few minutes here.

32:58.769 --> 32:59.870
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, then you're in public life.

33:00.570 --> 33:14.180
[SPEAKER_01]: And then what you do, I think people today, and I'm encouraging folks listening today, maybe you did this as well, maybe you sort of half-erended the transition, you didn't either from a diploma or even actually getting out.

33:15.300 --> 33:18.002
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not too late to go back and sort of fix some of that.

33:18.182 --> 33:24.407
[SPEAKER_01]: You're never gonna put, it's gonna be scarred, so it's not never gonna be like, it should have been, but you can at least go back and start.

33:24.787 --> 33:26.248
[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, it was,

33:28.407 --> 33:35.253
[SPEAKER_01]: never really acknowledging it, that it had been stressful, that it had been a problem and because they let me take it back to step further.

33:35.914 --> 33:39.457
[SPEAKER_01]: When I was pastoring, I had volunteered as a chaplain for the police and fire.

33:40.158 --> 33:46.624
[SPEAKER_01]: So my job a lot of times the police fires not only to ride with them during that time, but also I was the death notification person.

33:47.104 --> 33:50.165
[SPEAKER_01]: I was the one that had, you know, when it went bad, I was the one that was in the middle.

33:50.866 --> 34:02.610
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've had people yell at me, I've had people tell me I'm lying, I've had tell people tell me that I'm wrong, I've had people hit me, I've had people, you know, you know, run away to the room, and I'll guess that.

34:02.650 --> 34:08.833
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you do notification for like a victims of car crashes and stuff like that, yeah, I had one one time and it was a, uh,

34:09.813 --> 34:13.154
[SPEAKER_01]: actually an educator in my home county that I got called that night.

34:14.655 --> 34:18.516
[SPEAKER_01]: Young guy died never came home from school.

34:18.576 --> 34:19.436
[SPEAKER_01]: He was at a school in Madrid.

34:19.816 --> 34:23.697
[SPEAKER_01]: Never came home and they had to go tell the wife.

34:24.458 --> 34:24.958
[SPEAKER_01]: She was calling.

34:25.918 --> 34:27.078
[SPEAKER_01]: The phone and his desk was calling.

34:27.098 --> 34:27.278
[SPEAKER_01]: I was her.

34:27.659 --> 34:28.259
[SPEAKER_01]: We couldn't call it.

34:28.279 --> 34:29.559
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had to go to the house.

34:29.579 --> 34:29.999
[SPEAKER_01]: He went to the house.

34:30.019 --> 34:31.940
[SPEAKER_01]: He had three little kids and toys everywhere.

34:31.960 --> 34:34.421
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just, you know, you try what you do.

34:34.441 --> 34:35.241
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like it's a leader.

34:35.281 --> 34:36.741
[SPEAKER_01]: And Emily, you just eat it and you move on.

34:36.761 --> 34:37.362
[SPEAKER_01]: Eat it and move on.

34:39.083 --> 34:42.353
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not a good thing, you know, over time you'll be able to do that.

34:42.374 --> 34:45.845
[SPEAKER_02]: So, what you're protocol for the situation like that.

34:46.599 --> 34:55.641
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, for what we've had then is you would go up and one of the things that you learn early on is there's no sugar coating.

34:56.121 --> 34:56.621
[SPEAKER_01]: What has happened?

34:57.342 --> 35:02.563
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had so many times when I've had a train, because the good part of this, I came back as a chaplain a little bit older.

35:02.623 --> 35:06.904
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a lot of pretty good bit of experience, I had like seven years, you know, senior pastor transplant.

35:06.944 --> 35:10.625
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I came back in, especially the younger chaplain, I'd say, you know, they do this.

35:11.065 --> 35:14.746
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, you go in and you see, well, we're sorry to say, but, you know, you're

35:17.487 --> 35:21.751
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean they're out here, you know, and so, you know, are they have went on?

35:21.932 --> 35:22.632
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what does that mean?

35:22.852 --> 35:36.146
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, really your protocol is coming in and you know, tell who you are, and then this is why, frankly, this is one area that, again, for all our military folks out there, I'm just saying a preference is that I'm not dealing with doctrine here.

35:37.187 --> 35:39.309
[SPEAKER_01]: We put that on the officer.

35:39.529 --> 35:44.333
[SPEAKER_01]: We put that on the line side so to speak and we have the chaplain there sort of support.

35:44.833 --> 35:46.295
[SPEAKER_01]: Frankly, it should be reversed in my mind.

35:46.855 --> 35:53.061
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've been in the car with an officer that they had to go, they didn't want to do this.

35:53.081 --> 35:54.162
[SPEAKER_01]: They're looking at me terrified.

35:54.782 --> 35:56.343
[SPEAKER_02]: They're never done it before.

35:56.363 --> 35:58.764
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how many times are you trying for the, you don't train for that?

35:59.464 --> 36:01.385
[SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, sometimes all of us didn't either.

36:01.445 --> 36:10.589
[SPEAKER_01]: So you get in and you look across person and say, you know, I'm here to not because, and I try to call him by the name, we'll scale to that in the car.

36:10.609 --> 36:13.130
[SPEAKER_01]: Or they were killed and off.

36:13.851 --> 36:18.793
[SPEAKER_01]: And at that moment, you've pulled the pin, so to speak, and you've got to be ready for anything.

36:19.665 --> 36:22.906
[SPEAKER_01]: And at that moment, I've had them just simply collapse.

36:23.086 --> 36:25.087
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had them like they get mad, they run, they do.

36:25.667 --> 36:27.628
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you just, you talk with them for a little bit.

36:28.248 --> 36:30.029
[SPEAKER_01]: It's best you can.

36:30.929 --> 36:32.210
[SPEAKER_01]: And you try to hit them where they are.

36:32.230 --> 36:34.371
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of them, you know, it's just, you know, how could this happen?

36:34.391 --> 36:37.932
[SPEAKER_01]: They want to know, and you know, sometimes it's just, you know, this is where we go.

36:38.432 --> 36:44.254
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that I've learned over time to try and deal with it and people, because the obvious answer to the question that is, why?

36:45.035 --> 36:45.915
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do this happen?

36:46.155 --> 36:46.315
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?

36:46.395 --> 36:46.535
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?

36:47.195 --> 36:48.456
[SPEAKER_01]: And I tell them you're asking her on question.

36:49.329 --> 36:52.211
[SPEAKER_01]: Why although you want to know why I get it why it's not the right question.

36:52.491 --> 36:55.093
[SPEAKER_01]: What what is the right question what now?

36:55.834 --> 36:58.055
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not why you may not ever get that answer.

36:58.496 --> 37:00.597
[SPEAKER_01]: Why did I did why didn't I go with them?

37:00.637 --> 37:02.939
[SPEAKER_01]: You know again what what do I do now?

37:03.622 --> 37:05.103
[SPEAKER_01]: to take what I have and move on.

37:06.063 --> 37:16.588
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, back to your question, when I transitioned out from the deployment, I never took really that time because I didn't think I had to, I'm, you know, chaplain and you gotta go do this to it.

37:17.108 --> 37:22.210
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, it really, I take over time, you know, built up and then you go into, you talk about the national politics.

37:22.230 --> 37:25.912
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you hit Congress, when I ran for Congress in 12, which was just a few years later,

37:26.652 --> 37:43.133
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the NFL, you know, the light thrown, everybody looks at you, you hear it all and even in a district like mine, which was very safely conservative, you still get it and then when you get to DC the lights are only so it's always this constant tension and really it started hitting me and I started noticing later.

37:44.787 --> 37:50.270
[SPEAKER_01]: The build-up was when I was in Congress, I became the ranking member of Judiciary Committee in 2018.

37:52.931 --> 37:59.775
[SPEAKER_01]: At the end of that, at the end of 2018, the end of 2019, the Congress that was the Congress that first impeached the president had the Mueller hearing.

37:59.815 --> 38:03.336
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was the lead person on Judiciary, which was all this was on.

38:03.376 --> 38:06.338
[SPEAKER_01]: We had the massive hearings and I was sitting next to Natter.

38:06.778 --> 38:08.959
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just constant, struggling.

38:08.979 --> 38:13.041
[SPEAKER_01]: I started noticing that you start eating more and more.

38:14.762 --> 38:23.466
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason I tell you that whole story is is I wish I had taken a month, which I could have, and just said, hey, you know, I'm just going to rest here with the family.

38:23.726 --> 38:24.646
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to think about it.

38:24.666 --> 38:27.287
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll go talk to somebody, you know, just say, hey, wasn't terrible.

38:27.367 --> 38:32.890
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't injured per se, you know, mentally is a different issue, but, you know, that would get any stead.

38:32.910 --> 38:37.732
[SPEAKER_01]: I let that scab over, but it become a callous, still there.

38:39.307 --> 38:44.308
[SPEAKER_01]: And over time, those calluses get removed a little bit and is most wouldn't know in this.

38:44.689 --> 38:48.510
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would encourage everyone use their time and transition, fine, you know.

38:48.750 --> 38:55.892
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if you don't think so, I found, I don't know from your perspective, did you ever find stuff coming back that it was little things?

38:56.052 --> 38:57.172
[SPEAKER_01]: It was not the big things?

38:58.132 --> 39:01.613
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, our house, our house could fall down to be burnout, so I'm calm as cucumber.

39:02.913 --> 39:06.674
[SPEAKER_01]: I start watching something on TV or a song come on

39:10.117 --> 39:16.040
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, certainly, you know, like here in the National Anthem, it can make me, you know, make me tear up for sure.

39:16.060 --> 39:24.105
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and yeah, yeah, there's, there's like a little, little things that will remind of your, of my friends, you know, that, that, that, that I lost that can definitely catch you off guard.

39:24.925 --> 39:34.310
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and you know, I was trying to explain to people that, you know, one thing that makes losing someone so difficult is when you're an adult, you're supposed to have control over your emotions.

39:34.891 --> 39:37.492
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's going to be some emotions that come your way that you're not going to be able to control.

39:37.652 --> 39:38.833
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's a very scary.

39:39.573 --> 39:44.675
[SPEAKER_02]: because if you can't control it, then you think, well, then I've lost control in my life, I've lost control in my emotions.

39:44.695 --> 39:46.855
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what's going to happen.

39:46.915 --> 39:55.478
[SPEAKER_02]: What I tell them, which I've found to be true, is those emotions are going to dissipate over time and they're going to become less frequent and less strong.

39:56.118 --> 40:13.363
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and then people run into the problem where they think that because their emotions are less strong and because they're less frequent then they're a bad person because they're, you know, moving on when they're not a bad person all you're just processing what happened and that's what you're supposed to do as a human being and that's that's that's the way life goes and by the way

40:15.264 --> 40:24.308
[SPEAKER_02]: people have been dealing with loss forever and there's not one single person on this planet that hasn't had to deal with loss and and that's the process that people go through.

40:24.568 --> 40:36.774
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of the things I think that hurts America is we don't we've got such a diverse culture in America that we don't have a protocol a set protocol to deal with loss, you know, if you look at

40:37.826 --> 40:38.947
[SPEAKER_02]: other cultures.

40:39.307 --> 40:40.788
[SPEAKER_02]: They got their little protocol that you do.

40:40.848 --> 40:42.269
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, oh, you're going to go to this ceremony.

40:42.289 --> 40:43.090
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to do this thing.

40:43.110 --> 40:44.111
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to say this thing.

40:44.211 --> 40:46.332
[SPEAKER_02]: And then that that morning periods over and then you're going to move on.

40:46.833 --> 40:52.597
[SPEAKER_02]: But in America, you know, it's kind of wish you want you would just spend what religion you are depends on what your parents did, tend to what their parents did.

40:52.617 --> 40:55.619
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, you've got two sides of the family and they have different traditions.

40:55.639 --> 40:58.201
[SPEAKER_02]: So you end up just going, well, I know I'm supposed to be sad.

40:59.402 --> 41:00.303
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel sad.

41:00.723 --> 41:01.924
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what I'm going to do.

41:01.944 --> 41:02.624
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to be sad.

41:03.565 --> 41:05.146
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's not a protocol, right?

41:05.386 --> 41:08.148
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just washing around in the tide.

41:08.648 --> 41:10.430
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that causes problems too.

41:10.610 --> 41:17.555
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's good to have, you know, uh, we do a okay job in the military from like a ceremonial side.

41:18.492 --> 41:19.473
[SPEAKER_02]: But we don't explain that.

41:19.513 --> 41:21.114
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, that ceremony is taking place for a reason.

41:21.594 --> 41:23.035
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a reason that you're doing these things.

41:23.355 --> 41:31.359
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, even the act of burying someone is, you know, if you think about that metaphorically, it's like, okay, like you're burying them.

41:31.379 --> 41:33.821
[SPEAKER_02]: You're putting them back into the earth and like that's it.

41:34.161 --> 41:37.243
[SPEAKER_02]: If you think about that from a metaphorical perspective, you call, okay.

41:37.703 --> 41:40.427
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, they're still there, but I have to move on from it.

41:40.507 --> 41:42.791
[SPEAKER_02]: So those are some of the things I think help out.

41:43.031 --> 41:48.259
[SPEAKER_02]: So to answer your question, yes, do some small things, you know, make me feel sad.

41:48.359 --> 41:48.559
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

41:48.860 --> 41:50.662
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've had this conversation with many veterans.

41:51.544 --> 41:52.285
[SPEAKER_02]: That's totally normal.

41:52.745 --> 41:59.908
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if you think that you're not going to think about your friends that you lost, that you were, were your brothers, and you're not going to be sad.

42:00.349 --> 42:05.851
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I had a guy in my podcast, Colonel Tom Five, who he was in World War II Korean Vietnam.

42:06.211 --> 42:08.893
[SPEAKER_02]: He got a Purple Heart in World War II Korean Vietnam.

42:09.593 --> 42:14.215
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was very reassuring to me because we were talking about his career.

42:14.235 --> 42:15.136
[SPEAKER_02]: We were talking about his life.

42:15.176 --> 42:16.396
[SPEAKER_02]: We go all the way through World War II.

42:16.416 --> 42:17.617
[SPEAKER_02]: We go all the way through Korea.

42:18.378 --> 42:23.363
[SPEAKER_02]: we get to Vietnam, we're talking about Vietnam, he was a battalion commander of Vietnam, he'd start off as a private in the army.

42:23.803 --> 42:30.730
[SPEAKER_02]: Now he's a battalion commander of Vietnam, and I asked him the question, you know, we were talking about what operations they were doing, what the uptemp was like and what their mission was.

42:31.271 --> 42:37.197
[SPEAKER_02]: And finally, you know, just all good, all good conversation, and then I say, well, how many casualties did you take in your battalion?

42:37.497 --> 42:38.919
[SPEAKER_02]: And I asked him that question, he got choked up.

42:40.300 --> 42:42.062
[SPEAKER_02]: And I realized that that moment, I said, oh,

42:42.928 --> 42:55.191
[SPEAKER_02]: This guy, the Vietnam War was whatever it was 60 years ago, and this man who lived through World War II, who lived through Korea, and lived through Vietnam, he gets choked up when he thinks about the guys at the Austin.

42:56.788 --> 43:00.169
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's totally normal that I'm a normal person.

43:00.569 --> 43:05.730
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I talk about my friends, sometimes I'm gonna get choked up and I've explained that story to a lot of veterans.

43:06.230 --> 43:07.610
[SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing wrong.

43:07.630 --> 43:08.591
[SPEAKER_02]: There's absolutely nothing wrong.

43:08.831 --> 43:11.211
[SPEAKER_02]: As a matter of fact, that is normal.

43:11.331 --> 43:13.011
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would be concerned with the other side.

43:13.071 --> 43:18.653
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, if you've so blocked it out that you don't deal with it, that's the bigger concern for me.

43:19.133 --> 43:19.953
[SPEAKER_01]: Because at some point,

43:20.993 --> 43:26.495
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like this, probably about the best of I can analogy, it's like that dormant volcano.

43:26.875 --> 43:35.318
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it doesn't mean that there's not lava there, it doesn't mean that there's not something in there, it just means that for whatever reason it's not risen to the point where it flows.

43:35.838 --> 43:43.681
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of that is that self-made stuff that we go that, oh, I can't think about that or when I do, you know, when I do, I've got to act this way now that, hey,

43:44.841 --> 43:48.243
[SPEAKER_01]: I say this, and I was just at a funeral, the other day, I spoke actually at a funeral.

43:49.404 --> 43:57.270
[SPEAKER_01]: And I make this coming at a funeral as a lot, and I say this, I said, that the reason, I mean, for many of you, I just almost say something, it's going to make you think that I'm crazy, I said, but I'm not.

43:57.290 --> 43:59.291
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, the reason you're here is not because somebody died.

44:00.652 --> 44:02.953
[SPEAKER_01]: And most times, at a funeral, there's sort of like, well, there's a casket here.

44:03.254 --> 44:04.535
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, the reason you're here is because they lived.

44:04.555 --> 44:09.238
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, how many times do you drive by churches or funeral homes every day and you see a funeral going on, but you don't stop?

44:10.692 --> 44:12.153
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a culture that we just all the way to.

44:12.173 --> 44:12.773
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to go in.

44:13.014 --> 44:14.735
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you're there because they lived.

44:15.616 --> 44:17.137
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, that's what you've got to hold on to.

44:17.157 --> 44:18.718
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the part that you've got to get into.

44:19.038 --> 44:25.583
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason that you took time out of your day to go out of a normal routine is because this person lived.

44:26.826 --> 44:33.751
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we focus on that living, and then dying is a part of that living, then you're able to try and put those pieces together.

44:34.532 --> 44:40.036
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, too many times, I mean, I've got friends who, I don't go to the hospital.

44:40.136 --> 44:43.779
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm, I'm, you know, I don't just don't, well, why the hell not?

44:43.819 --> 44:46.862
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, it's part of life, I mean, really?

44:47.642 --> 44:49.623
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe if I don't go to funerals, I'm not going to do that.

44:49.803 --> 44:50.183
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

44:50.423 --> 44:52.303
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll be surprised if I can answer my tell me that.

44:52.323 --> 44:53.584
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if you're not aware of it, why not?

44:53.604 --> 44:54.604
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, good luck.

44:54.644 --> 44:55.444
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to get you one day.

44:55.464 --> 44:56.024
[SPEAKER_01]: You know?

44:56.264 --> 44:58.565
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's a really, it's another thing I've tell people all the time.

44:58.805 --> 45:03.566
[SPEAKER_02]: I like you have done a decent amount of ulegies.

45:03.947 --> 45:08.688
[SPEAKER_02]: And so when someone dies and you then are forced to in a state of despair,

45:10.232 --> 45:14.113
[SPEAKER_02]: sit down and write out your emotions and your feelings and your thoughts.

45:14.433 --> 45:16.554
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a very therapeutic thing in my book.

45:16.574 --> 45:19.555
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't think about that, you know, the first time I ever did it.

45:19.695 --> 45:22.116
[SPEAKER_02]: By the time I'm doing it for the third, fourth, fifth time.

45:22.156 --> 45:23.036
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, oh, okay.

45:23.936 --> 45:25.917
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I see other people going through loss.

45:26.837 --> 45:29.761
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what I tell him, I'm like, hey, right, you know, write that person a letter.

45:30.081 --> 45:34.326
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it doesn't matter if you ever deliver at at at the church, but write that person a letter.

45:34.346 --> 45:35.207
[SPEAKER_02]: Tell him what you thought about him.

45:35.227 --> 45:36.489
[SPEAKER_02]: Tell him what you're going to miss about him.

45:36.589 --> 45:40.634
[SPEAKER_02]: Tell him where what you're going to do now that they're gone and how you're going to carry on with Adam and how you're going to make him proud.

45:40.794 --> 45:41.375
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

45:43.297 --> 45:46.318
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the people think that chaplains and pastors, you know, we do this all the time.

45:46.338 --> 45:48.599
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, you know, you could just do it.

45:48.659 --> 45:50.759
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had a gentleman talking about this.

45:50.819 --> 45:51.379
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not military.

45:51.399 --> 45:52.500
[SPEAKER_01]: It was in my pastor.

45:52.520 --> 45:53.820
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was a Vietnam vet.

45:53.880 --> 45:55.061
[SPEAKER_01]: He was come by.

45:55.101 --> 45:56.981
[SPEAKER_01]: He came in and was one of my deacons.

45:57.801 --> 45:59.242
[SPEAKER_01]: And I saw him that morning.

46:00.042 --> 46:25.527
[SPEAKER_01]: at church and we talked about we were having this issue that we're trying to get some stuff done and he was an old cop he came back he became a cop in Atlanta David was his name and so he and he treated me not like a pastor with that kid glow kind of pastor it was just I was just one of the guy he just I was a I was a little brother he didn't really care he tell me if I was get my head out of my rear and and I saw him that day we had kids in the car and

46:29.818 --> 46:30.579
[SPEAKER_01]: That afternoon, he went home.

46:30.619 --> 46:32.019
[SPEAKER_01]: He was in the backyard and doing some stuff.

46:32.039 --> 46:35.401
[SPEAKER_01]: I think of the grass, and he fell over dead at our day.

46:36.422 --> 46:37.082
[SPEAKER_01]: Went to the hospital.

46:41.625 --> 46:42.346
[SPEAKER_01]: Still remember walking.

46:42.366 --> 46:46.008
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, done at hundreds of times, but that one was just different.

46:46.608 --> 46:47.969
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was about the time of this transition.

46:48.009 --> 46:49.790
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just discussing.

46:50.090 --> 46:51.471
[SPEAKER_01]: And I went in.

46:52.172 --> 46:53.573
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember leaving.

46:53.593 --> 46:56.654
[SPEAKER_01]: I did my thing that I'll be there as a family.

46:56.674 --> 46:57.235
[SPEAKER_01]: Have prayer to.

46:57.707 --> 47:04.033
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember just walking out of the door with some other saying, and I just started walking and I had one of my gentlemen who was a little bit older than me.

47:04.413 --> 47:08.557
[SPEAKER_01]: He followed me out and I was just walking and I was walking out of the hospital on and he said, where are you going?

47:08.597 --> 47:09.578
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, I don't know and don't care.

47:11.499 --> 47:12.020
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, I'm done.

47:12.660 --> 47:14.862
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just, I just got to the point where I was tired.

47:15.732 --> 47:21.736
[SPEAKER_01]: And here was somebody that I had depended on that had helped me and it was gone.

47:21.756 --> 47:22.517
[SPEAKER_01]: I was mad at God.

47:22.577 --> 47:23.578
[SPEAKER_01]: I was mad at the world.

47:24.198 --> 47:26.300
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just a struggle.

47:27.440 --> 47:37.668
[SPEAKER_01]: But I went through the motions of doing this stuff with the family, getting ready for the funeral, which was going to be two days after whatever three days after.

47:38.068 --> 47:38.728
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be the church.

47:40.129 --> 47:41.510
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember going in the office,

47:42.831 --> 47:52.575
[SPEAKER_01]: and my secretary, Mary, who's like a mom, and I said, I don't want to do this, and she said, I understand, but, you know, we love David, but you got to do this.

47:52.955 --> 47:57.818
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I don't want to have mad, and she sort of just walked me through it.

47:57.858 --> 47:58.898
[SPEAKER_01]: It's only she could.

48:00.659 --> 48:06.541
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll remember sitting in that room, in her office, up from mine, and I'm sitting there, and

48:10.188 --> 48:18.170
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a passage in the Scripture where Jonah was, if you remember the biblical story that was Jonah and the whale whale, I talk about it, most people don't realize it.

48:18.510 --> 48:23.691
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason he got in the whale is because he didn't do what God had wanted him to do, so that's how he ended up there.

48:24.111 --> 48:29.853
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he went and did it, and I'm doing my north Georgia paraphrase here.

48:30.613 --> 48:34.954
[SPEAKER_01]: He went and did it, and then he saw that it did exactly what God said, and he got ticked about it.

48:35.710 --> 48:37.352
[SPEAKER_01]: because he didn't like the people he's supposed to go see anyway.

48:38.172 --> 48:41.456
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's sitting under the shade tree in the same bush or whatever you don't call it.

48:41.836 --> 48:45.720
[SPEAKER_01]: And he starts complaining, well God takes my shade tree.

48:46.521 --> 48:48.022
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, what if you abandon me here for?

48:48.423 --> 48:50.565
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's in God made in the scripture.

48:50.585 --> 48:53.308
[SPEAKER_01]: His scripture says that God told him to say, look, he said, what do you got me?

48:53.328 --> 48:54.589
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, I gave you this.

48:54.849 --> 48:57.131
[SPEAKER_01]: I gave you the shade, I get your complaining.

48:57.852 --> 49:08.500
[SPEAKER_01]: about something you didn't have anything to do with it and I remember sitting there she's talking this is weird it's like she's talking to me and I'm here that that just came into my head and it was basically like saying get over yourself.

49:10.022 --> 49:13.084
[SPEAKER_01]: I gave him to you to help you through a time.

49:13.504 --> 49:14.725
[SPEAKER_01]: It's now time to do what you need to do.

49:15.886 --> 49:21.571
[SPEAKER_01]: I tried to then go back and I just sort of calmed I walked back to my office and I started thinking about what I was going to say.

49:22.331 --> 49:22.772
[SPEAKER_01]: Never could

49:29.157 --> 49:40.174
[SPEAKER_01]: and when it got time for me to do my part of the the yielding the service I got up and I told everybody I said I said I struggled with this I don't know I say so I said I'm just going to simply read the letter I wrote to.

49:41.738 --> 49:42.358
[SPEAKER_01]: and I read the letter.

49:43.439 --> 49:46.741
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably the shortest, you know, one of the shorter use I have it is about two page letter.

49:47.001 --> 49:49.383
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just wrote it to talk about things that you just talked about.

49:49.923 --> 49:54.026
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we didn't get to build that pole barn, but I'm going to figure out how, you know, we can make it happen.

49:54.166 --> 49:57.008
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, it was therapeutic.

49:57.088 --> 49:59.550
[SPEAKER_01]: It was running at one is reminding me in our position in the world.

50:00.450 --> 50:16.904
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all about us and sometimes life will remind you it's not, but also being able to write that down, being able to just say it in words that I couldn't have said any other way, let's you remember that one that person meant the world to you will still mean the world to you.

50:18.125 --> 50:19.086
[SPEAKER_01]: But they're not just gonna be there.

50:19.686 --> 50:20.607
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a big difference.

50:20.627 --> 50:30.674
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're finding your ways to cope and in our society We sort of frown on that you've got to have those moments of of coping and In this fast microwave to get it now.

50:30.794 --> 50:34.997
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think about how many times I can't think of how many times in life I get mad at a drive through

50:36.858 --> 50:42.643
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus I said I go ahead and get a cheeseburger and it's like well, oh, they ever got to go get a kill the You know kill the cow.

50:42.703 --> 50:45.225
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been all of six minutes and I'm upset.

50:45.265 --> 50:45.985
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't get a burger.

50:46.206 --> 50:55.213
[SPEAKER_01]: You know We we got to have a reality check in some ways in our life and I think that's the way Enforcing military sort of builds that in in a different way

50:56.879 --> 51:01.762
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, when you mentioned that, you know, you didn't take that month, right, you didn't take that downtime.

51:02.182 --> 51:07.786
[SPEAKER_02]: What, when did that kind of surface the fact that you look back and you go, man, I need a little bit of a breather there.

51:08.726 --> 51:13.089
[SPEAKER_01]: About two or three years later, it was, it was, it was, and, and, and,

51:15.029 --> 51:25.476
[SPEAKER_01]: We were, again, going back to my bride who Lisa is, I truly believe given and we're together for their purpose goes she has such insight into me and I'm to her.

51:26.557 --> 51:40.827
[SPEAKER_01]: But we were talking and we go back and sometimes you look and trying to transition to something and I said, well, I didn't spend enough time learning this and going back on as she said, well, you know, part of that as you just had to go do it.

51:42.810 --> 51:50.575
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, yeah, and sometimes it's, you start figuring out that you should have done it because of what you can't do now.

51:51.467 --> 52:06.837
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's some things that, you know, if I, if I hadn't went into politics, which I think, you know, was part of this whole plan, but from a legal perspective, I didn't go get a mentor in a hell, but even though I was, you know, 40, you know, right, 30, 40 years old, I needed somebody to go help me with the basics.

52:06.897 --> 52:11.259
[SPEAKER_01]: I just started off a practice and said, hey, I'll just do this all my home, you know, top-aid acne.

52:11.720 --> 52:13.881
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I needed to be at a firm to be taught.

52:15.042 --> 52:17.163
[SPEAKER_02]: And what did you do at your firm?

52:17.818 --> 52:18.438
[SPEAKER_01]: I did everything.

52:18.458 --> 52:19.119
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a walk-a if you walked in.

52:19.139 --> 52:38.086
[SPEAKER_01]: If you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you walked in, if you had business, if you had doors, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had criminal, if you had

52:38.427 --> 52:39.388
[SPEAKER_01]: I did, I did.

52:39.608 --> 52:41.629
[SPEAKER_01]: It was an extension of pastor in a way.

52:41.869 --> 52:46.332
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd be how many times the pastors get asked legal questions, you know, kind of thinking, it's like, well, pastor helped me here.

52:46.853 --> 52:54.558
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was able to, you know, help people when they came in and I ended up probably lost this.

52:54.678 --> 53:01.182
[SPEAKER_01]: I came here with how to completely ended up, but this woman lady came in one day and she was looking toward getting a divorce and we started talking.

53:01.623 --> 53:04.305
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think my pastor, mine kicked him before my legal mine.

53:04.605 --> 53:05.886
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, what is your problem?

53:06.006 --> 53:06.746
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's the problem?

53:07.967 --> 53:09.407
[SPEAKER_01]: Have y'all just trying to talk about this?

53:09.427 --> 53:11.668
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, I don't want to talk to him.

53:11.688 --> 53:12.708
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, well, here's what you do.

53:12.908 --> 53:14.509
[SPEAKER_01]: I gave her this whole checklist on this.

53:14.549 --> 53:15.309
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you go back home?

53:15.509 --> 53:16.489
[SPEAKER_01]: I never heard from her again.

53:16.529 --> 53:18.210
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she made it home and never got into a horse.

53:18.230 --> 53:22.131
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, they're going my feed, but other than that, you know, there's a marriage type.

53:22.191 --> 53:23.711
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I can't bet it's a little weird.

53:23.771 --> 53:28.092
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it weird when you're a lawyer, when someone comes to you, and you know that they're bad?

53:29.112 --> 53:29.872
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you handle that?

53:32.513 --> 53:33.714
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, a couple of ways.

53:33.755 --> 53:40.821
[SPEAKER_01]: Number one, you know, our system, no matter who you are, demands that we have, you do process and that they get that hearing.

53:40.981 --> 53:46.467
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we ever lose that in our society, no matter how bad they are, then it can be lost for any of us.

53:47.207 --> 53:51.872
[SPEAKER_01]: But the other one is very, and it's interesting, because that's a question, because it's a very spiritual answer for me.

53:52.392 --> 53:55.573
[SPEAKER_01]: and I heard it from someone, I don't claim to be original, but it was actually said.

53:57.374 --> 54:00.735
[SPEAKER_01]: They said, well Doug, how can you represent somebody that you know did it, so to speak?

54:00.795 --> 54:03.656
[SPEAKER_01]: And had people who did stupid stuff and they did.

54:04.696 --> 54:06.196
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, well, I said, I look at this way.

54:06.236 --> 54:07.237
[SPEAKER_01]: Number one, I'm not condoning.

54:07.517 --> 54:08.797
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe what they did or did not.

54:08.977 --> 54:10.618
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, but the law says, this is what we're supposed to.

54:11.258 --> 54:19.120
[SPEAKER_01]: But then I said, for anybody and I've had a lot of people when I left the church, you talk about leaving a pastor it and then going to law, it's like, what are you doing?

54:19.160 --> 54:21.101
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I was the complete apostate at that point.

54:23.562 --> 54:29.306
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually had a pastor say, well, you're leaving the ministry, I said, do you not hear what you preach every week?

54:29.847 --> 54:31.248
[SPEAKER_01]: You talk about going back to their workplace.

54:31.268 --> 54:32.388
[SPEAKER_01]: That only for them not you.

54:33.129 --> 54:33.949
[SPEAKER_01]: I went back into the war.

54:33.989 --> 54:38.933
[SPEAKER_01]: I had more chances for ministry and being a lawyer and in law school than people who walk through the doors of a church.

54:38.973 --> 54:40.574
[SPEAKER_01]: Most of them there have it all together.

54:41.114 --> 54:51.057
[SPEAKER_01]: Please focus it in, and so when I say this, I'm in it, I said, you know, from my faith perspective, it teaches me that the Christ stood with me on my worst day.

54:51.157 --> 54:52.878
[SPEAKER_01]: How can I not stand with somebody on their worst day?

54:54.458 --> 55:07.482
[SPEAKER_01]: And that mean I agree with them, I think that they deserve the punishment they're going to get, but somebody needs to be there and maybe by being there with them, it will help them, you know, find any perspective in life as they go forward.

55:09.052 --> 55:14.198
[SPEAKER_02]: So four years of that, the new end up, so you end up in the U.S.

55:14.239 --> 55:14.899
[SPEAKER_02]: Congress, right?

55:15.200 --> 55:16.481
[SPEAKER_02]: And now you said that's like the NFL.

55:16.501 --> 55:17.262
[SPEAKER_02]: This is full content.

55:17.302 --> 55:18.223
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is full content.

55:18.324 --> 55:19.805
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is full content.

55:19.865 --> 55:20.827
[SPEAKER_02]: What does that look like?

55:20.847 --> 55:24.311
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you read articles about yourself in the paper going, oh, my gosh, I never did any of that.

55:24.331 --> 55:25.072
[SPEAKER_02]: What are they talking about?

55:25.092 --> 55:25.673
[SPEAKER_02]: What does it look like?

55:25.693 --> 55:26.974
[SPEAKER_02]: What's full contact politics with black?

55:27.014 --> 55:28.136
[SPEAKER_01]: That means that everything's on the board.

55:28.636 --> 55:39.725
[SPEAKER_01]: and that everything you say, everything you do is under macho, you know, if frankly, if the Congress is NFL, Senate and House is NFL and campaigns are going to fail.

55:39.806 --> 55:45.010
[SPEAKER_01]: Now what we're doing now in the cabinet is more Olympic Olympics, kind of thing.

55:45.050 --> 55:46.131
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because it is.

55:46.651 --> 55:54.398
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's just a whole different as it becomes, you know, your shirts and skins, it's pure raw power.

55:54.838 --> 56:00.259
[SPEAKER_01]: at the national level because Washington is the ultimate peak of national politics, and it is.

56:00.559 --> 56:05.740
[SPEAKER_01]: And you then interact with the executive branch, whoever the president may be, when I first got elected, it was President Obama.

56:07.180 --> 56:08.441
[SPEAKER_01]: And he had just won reelection.

56:08.801 --> 56:18.863
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I go into DC in a turmoil because that was the time of, if you remember, the old sequestration and the super committee and the fiscal cliff and all this kind of crap.

56:18.883 --> 56:20.283
[SPEAKER_01]: So I come into it in that time.

56:21.764 --> 56:35.339
[SPEAKER_01]: So, everything is just, yeah, you read yourself, what's amazing is how many times I read stuff in the paper or read stuff online and I'm saying, and they talk about a meeting that happened and I'm saying, I just was at that, I mean, I didn't have it anyway, but people get enough and they just write about it.

56:35.379 --> 56:41.325
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it's very open in the sense of what you do and how you do it or what people think of you.

56:42.846 --> 56:43.886
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, that perception.

56:44.967 --> 56:47.267
[SPEAKER_01]: People also, we've had an interesting breakdown.

56:47.307 --> 57:05.052
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember when I was younger, you know, if you had politicians or you had members of the judiciary, even militarymen, you know, there were certain things that you just didn't go up and, you know, say, you know, I noticed the other night that the president went to someplace to eat and they were people actually yelling at him and, you know, calling him a dictator and all this other stuff.

57:05.772 --> 57:08.934
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, whether that was true or not, years ago, nobody did that.

57:08.974 --> 57:09.874
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a decorum.

57:10.955 --> 57:12.036
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no decorum anymore.

57:12.056 --> 57:13.036
[SPEAKER_01]: It's far as that goes.

57:13.096 --> 57:22.622
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people think they can, I mean, I get stopped and grocery stores, I get stopped anywhere, and they'll just come up and, you know, won't ask you to do something or tell you all for whatever.

57:22.682 --> 57:22.782
[SPEAKER_01]: So,

57:23.242 --> 57:26.225
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very high visibility when it comes to that perspective.

57:26.265 --> 57:28.507
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything gets scrutinized.

57:30.088 --> 57:38.175
[SPEAKER_01]: And you have to remember that whatever you say, somebody's going to say something, there might be, and they'll use it as an advantage.

57:38.355 --> 57:45.461
[SPEAKER_01]: I think somebody once said, you know, was being in politics and pastoring were similar.

57:45.501 --> 57:47.023
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, well, yeah, I said to an extent.

57:47.063 --> 57:49.165
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, but he said to politics, I can fight back.

57:50.423 --> 57:56.145
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the past, you know, it's like you just sort of had, okay, you're our congregation, please come together with it, you know, now just fight back.

57:56.305 --> 57:59.186
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you're going, well, I'm going, I'm going to pop you on your lot.

57:59.546 --> 58:06.028
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we've, we've developed this very confrontational culture in politics, not to the best.

58:06.905 --> 58:08.765
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll just be very, very, very honest about that.

58:10.366 --> 58:12.906
[SPEAKER_01]: I was able to do a lot of bipartisan things when I was in Congress.

58:12.926 --> 58:13.587
[SPEAKER_01]: We changed stuff.

58:13.967 --> 58:16.287
[SPEAKER_01]: I focused on the things that a lot of them didn't focus on.

58:17.287 --> 58:20.288
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had a lot of Democrats support, and it was common sense kind of stuff.

58:20.448 --> 58:31.431
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, when you get to the bigger stuff, it's, yeah, I say shirts and scans, and you're not very few shoulder to meet, and that's made it very difficult to do big things.

58:32.151 --> 58:32.671
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care who's there.

58:33.125 --> 58:39.811
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, is it worse than you thought it was going to be when you showed it or was it worse than you thought it was going to be as far as the partisanship when you showed up in DC?

58:40.511 --> 58:53.042
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, after coming from six years in the Georgia legislature, uh, which we thought we had partisanship, which we really didn't, I mean, when I look at it from the perspective now, I mean, most people don't realize like, and I'll just use George and this is true for most states.

58:53.082 --> 58:54.584
[SPEAKER_01]: I've talked to a lot of state reps as well.

58:55.204 --> 59:00.148
[SPEAKER_01]: In George, we had a 90, two or three percent of all the bills passed with either

59:01.224 --> 59:05.965
[SPEAKER_01]: both parties voting for it or only about five or six people voting against it, you know, just very overwhelming majority.

59:06.145 --> 59:12.487
[SPEAKER_01]: We only had about four to five bills that were ever down to, you know, just split in party lines or people splitting over.

59:12.507 --> 59:14.628
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a, you know, will it pass well in our pass?

59:14.668 --> 59:15.968
[SPEAKER_01]: That was just, you know, we just didn't have it.

59:16.228 --> 59:16.869
[SPEAKER_01]: Go to DC.

59:17.409 --> 59:21.530
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you vote on, well, we're going to recognize that tomorrow is sunshine come up day.

59:22.050 --> 59:26.434
[SPEAKER_01]: and you're going to have all the Democrats vote, yes, and all the Republicans may vote no.

59:26.954 --> 59:31.898
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's just, you just want that sort of, this is our party position, and we're going to take that position.

59:32.378 --> 59:36.602
[SPEAKER_01]: That's much more evident in DC than others, and it's gotten worse over time.

59:37.162 --> 59:48.196
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, we were able to pass some stuff that we were able to do some things with, but it took time a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff that, you know, that were really big things, like intellectual property stuff, music modernization.

59:48.496 --> 59:52.701
[SPEAKER_01]: I did that was a build that I did actually with, who's the current minority leader, how came Jeffries.

59:53.102 --> 59:54.043
[SPEAKER_01]: We changed how people,

59:55.244 --> 01:00:17.119
[SPEAKER_01]: like song rotters and stuff get paid on Spotify and all these platforms where as the old system they were able to make a living new system all the digital stuff they were getting screwed and so you know those are kind of things that's not headlines but they make a big and dollars difference in the lives of everyday you know people we did that for other bills as well so when you get there you just sort of have to understand where it is and

01:00:18.139 --> 01:00:22.883
[SPEAKER_02]: What I've noticed even how do you connect with her keen Jeffries to start that process?

01:00:23.263 --> 01:00:27.867
[SPEAKER_01]: He was on the committee when they we both came in the same year and so Even you look at some issues.

01:00:27.887 --> 01:00:35.854
[SPEAKER_01]: You always try to get you know somebody on the other side to be on a sponsor on a bill like that and It was really interesting, you know, he would handle sort of his side of the house.

01:00:35.914 --> 01:00:41.358
[SPEAKER_01]: I would handle sort of my side of the house and We got it through the Senate and we did some criminal justice form work.

01:00:41.418 --> 01:00:44.301
[SPEAKER_01]: We did some trade sacred stuff and

01:00:44.761 --> 01:00:54.849
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it was just a big bill so that made a big difference, but it was just stuff that you were able to find common ground that wasn't the hot button issues that everybody was going to talk about.

01:00:55.189 --> 01:01:02.315
[SPEAKER_02]: And you obviously have to have conversations with them, sit down, talk to them, and it's like you're treating each other like human beings.

01:01:02.455 --> 01:01:02.615
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

01:01:03.937 --> 01:01:06.298
[SPEAKER_01]: I've jokingly described the Congress as the WV.

01:01:09.437 --> 01:01:15.240
[SPEAKER_02]: So what you do in the in the cages or in the ring is what you have your own opinion.

01:01:15.881 --> 01:01:16.521
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:01:16.701 --> 01:01:17.301
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

01:01:17.361 --> 01:01:18.402
[SPEAKER_01]: Social media is made worse.

01:01:18.782 --> 01:01:19.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:01:19.282 --> 01:01:20.163
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's completely worse.

01:01:20.623 --> 01:01:21.724
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's five minute questioning.

01:01:22.044 --> 01:01:33.410
[SPEAKER_01]: I was, I was, I was like, I'm just, I'm one of those open kind of guys what I thought that's why I had to be a, in the people who don't like the change we're made, they just sort of attack, but I just have to look if we're wrong, I'm gonna tell you we're wrong if we're right, I'm gonna tell you how we're right, I'm gonna fight you the way.

01:01:33.450 --> 01:01:34.330
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're gonna do this.

01:01:34.751 --> 01:01:38.072
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I mean, I have it all the time where, you know, the,

01:01:39.573 --> 01:01:55.658
[SPEAKER_01]: The five-minute questioning that we see all the time in Congress, I want to ask because there's number of people in that committee and so one day your staff kind of helps you get this because the one thing is right now we expect members of Congress to be experts on everything.

01:01:56.907 --> 01:01:59.271
[SPEAKER_01]: And a old friend of mine one time he was a member of Congress.

01:01:59.291 --> 01:02:01.234
[SPEAKER_01]: He came in and he said, Doug, he says, here's what you're going to learn.

01:02:01.274 --> 01:02:02.716
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, you first week, you're going to walk in.

01:02:02.756 --> 01:02:04.699
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to look at the the big room.

01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:05.660
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to look at the speaker.

01:02:05.680 --> 01:02:06.381
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to see the TV.

01:02:06.401 --> 01:02:08.665
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to see all the capital and it's going to be amazing.

01:02:08.705 --> 01:02:10.547
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, you're going to ask yourself, how do I get here?

01:02:11.640 --> 01:02:13.121
[SPEAKER_01]: He said in about a month, you're going to walk in.

01:02:13.181 --> 01:02:17.104
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, you're going to look around at your colleagues and everybody and you're going to say, oh my god, how did they get here?

01:02:20.447 --> 01:02:23.770
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's just sort of where it comes out of.

01:02:25.051 --> 01:02:32.237
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, this family, so I asked my staff one day, they had asked some questions that I knew we're going to be asked earlier because it was just the headline.

01:02:32.877 --> 01:02:34.919
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, why do you want me to ask you questions?

01:02:34.959 --> 01:02:36.561
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I made a habit of, I did my own.

01:02:36.621 --> 01:02:41.886
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would watch the hearing, because my legal background, my was, I said, I'll just take what they say in the chat.

01:02:41.906 --> 01:02:43.108
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was quite a list of it.

01:02:43.528 --> 01:02:48.814
[SPEAKER_01]: But sir, when we put it on YouTube, nobody knows that you, those questions that already been asked.

01:02:48.834 --> 01:02:50.655
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's like, really?

01:02:51.721 --> 01:02:53.082
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the answer you just gave me.

01:02:53.602 --> 01:02:56.584
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's an honest answer for them, and I don't blame the cons people for that.

01:02:56.824 --> 01:03:01.186
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what their job is, is to give their member the best visibility.

01:03:01.286 --> 01:03:02.967
[SPEAKER_01]: And how big is your staff from your congressman?

01:03:04.208 --> 01:03:09.190
[SPEAKER_01]: In the house, you have about, depends on how you want to staff it out, but I'd say somewhere between 14 and 16.

01:03:09.431 --> 01:03:10.451
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't spend them.

01:03:10.931 --> 01:03:11.832
[SPEAKER_01]: Government, federal government.

01:03:12.652 --> 01:03:14.733
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a budget for each office, who's called the MRA.

01:03:15.794 --> 01:03:28.357
[SPEAKER_01]: So you get about a, I may be off on this, so, but I want to say it was like a me in six, something like that, but that takes your district for your hooves in the state and also who's in DC.

01:03:28.377 --> 01:03:35.999
[SPEAKER_01]: And you typically have seven, if you're not in leadership or in a committee, definitely have about six to seven in your DC office that handles all things.

01:03:36.059 --> 01:03:38.940
[SPEAKER_01]: Because remember, as I just said, if the men's going to be expecting to be experts in everything,

01:03:40.840 --> 01:03:56.487
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's absolutely no way on any given day in your office, you'll have somebody talking about everything from AI to abortion, to dog fighting, I mean, I'm just making, you know, just to give you the, to have to, to seeding an agriculture to the, you know, undergrowth and a forest.

01:03:56.527 --> 01:03:58.108
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, all of this, it is just no way.

01:03:58.228 --> 01:04:04.410
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have people who handle those committees that you either, you sit on or the committees that you don't sit on to keep up with what's going on.

01:04:05.151 --> 01:04:09.152
[SPEAKER_01]: And then back in this district, you have folks who take care of the local stuff and also the

01:04:10.913 --> 01:04:19.699
[SPEAKER_01]: But now that goes everything so I covers your playing tickets back home, that covers everything that you get Which I might get up and and that's what happens.

01:04:20.160 --> 01:04:32.688
[SPEAKER_02]: So you were kind of you were on High visibility during the as a judiciary committee during the whole Trump will is that like from the inside Chaos it really was because what I noticed something and I and

01:04:34.257 --> 01:04:36.699
[SPEAKER_01]: I noticed from the moment the 18 election occurred.

01:04:36.839 --> 01:04:41.481
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, 17 and 18 was first, first two years, it was building just sort of storm.

01:04:41.782 --> 01:04:45.284
[SPEAKER_01]: And we knew that a lot of the rush of stuff was fake.

01:04:45.384 --> 01:04:53.249
[SPEAKER_01]: We knew that it was, we couldn't put our hand on why, but it because they were hiding stuff, which tells you many others have now found cash in the rest.

01:04:53.729 --> 01:04:59.913
[SPEAKER_01]: But so myself, others on the committee, of course, David Nunez, triggered many of those had worked on this.

01:05:00.473 --> 01:05:07.195
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, 18 happens, and we knew that Chairman Goodlatt was going to retire, and he wasn't coming back.

01:05:08.115 --> 01:05:12.637
[SPEAKER_01]: I was not the most senior senior person, but I had done a lot of work.

01:05:13.257 --> 01:05:14.617
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we've made a lot of friends.

01:05:14.697 --> 01:05:16.918
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been part of leadership in the house.

01:05:17.438 --> 01:05:19.478
[SPEAKER_01]: So we made our play for what would have been chairmanship.

01:05:19.518 --> 01:05:20.319
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we lost the life.

01:05:20.359 --> 01:05:22.019
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've been ranking what's called ranking members.

01:05:22.039 --> 01:05:24.280
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was the Chairman for the Republicans in essence.

01:05:25.522 --> 01:05:31.840
[SPEAKER_01]: And I noticed the change right after the November election when the Democrats won again.

01:05:33.326 --> 01:05:39.249
[SPEAKER_01]: And they went from folks that I had worked with, now they didn't want to work.

01:05:40.750 --> 01:05:47.694
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember a bill that was, this shows you an interesting, it was anti-Semitism bill that finally I think the president actually tried to put into executive order in the first term.

01:05:49.115 --> 01:05:56.159
[SPEAKER_01]: We were simply aligning the anti-Semitism language with other agencies in the state and for an education from state department and others.

01:05:57.119 --> 01:06:02.023
[SPEAKER_01]: We'd worked on this like three congresses and everybody, you know, you could, well, it's a first amendment problem and it was, we'd worked through it all.

01:06:02.383 --> 01:06:05.426
[SPEAKER_01]: By the time we got it done, each, it was going to be fine.

01:06:05.526 --> 01:06:06.407
[SPEAKER_01]: It would have been a good bill.

01:06:08.909 --> 01:06:12.792
[SPEAKER_01]: Me being rank, a member gives me some power on our side to boost that.

01:06:12.812 --> 01:06:18.056
[SPEAKER_01]: So I said, right after the first, I said, I'm not going to be able to work with, uh, Mission Adler and Jerry Nadler and a lot of things.

01:06:18.517 --> 01:06:20.278
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, but this was Eric, because Jerry looked at it.

01:06:20.338 --> 01:06:23.040
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the other members in his side had worked on it as well.

01:06:23.681 --> 01:06:24.862
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, let's go ahead and push this through.

01:06:24.902 --> 01:06:25.923
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, just something I can work with.

01:06:26.972 --> 01:06:43.730
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... well we got some language problem uh... don't want to so here was a bill that we could have easily gotten passed in their side because they were pushing it before all of a sudden became well we're not going do this in a became a partisan issue became we're not going to put trump you know we're not going to give trump any victory so

01:06:44.750 --> 01:06:53.575
[SPEAKER_01]: It was Chaos from the beginning, I mean Matt Whitaker, who's become a dear friend now, he's a NATO ambassador, was the interim attorney general at the time before Bar came in.

01:06:54.115 --> 01:06:59.958
[SPEAKER_01]: And the first thing they wanted to do was get him in because they wanted to see if he was doing anything with a mall or investigation.

01:07:01.039 --> 01:07:07.442
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I've, that began my year, actually ended up riding a book about it, it was called Clock in the Calendar.

01:07:07.622 --> 01:07:10.444
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was some of my speeches if you go to YouTube, you can look up this time.

01:07:10.924 --> 01:07:13.005
[SPEAKER_01]: And I started saying this is all about the clock in the calendar.

01:07:14.085 --> 01:07:22.368
[SPEAKER_01]: and what it was is they were trying to do what my opinion was and I believe they frankly they in some ways succeeded was to tear down the president for the next presidential race.

01:07:22.908 --> 01:07:23.609
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's all it was.

01:07:23.889 --> 01:07:26.230
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it was a cause of race against the clock and race against the calendar.

01:07:27.030 --> 01:07:40.335
[SPEAKER_01]: We thought we'd beat Mueller and because there was nothing there and when the report came out it was terrible and we had set it up and when his hearing was there, I took the first questions of it and by the time I was done with my five minutes he actually sort of admitted

01:07:41.295 --> 01:07:44.916
[SPEAKER_01]: to the point that he didn't know what his own report said, and then it was just downhill from there.

01:07:46.217 --> 01:07:50.258
[SPEAKER_01]: So we left July that year thinking, okay, we're behind this a little bit.

01:07:50.699 --> 01:07:54.240
[SPEAKER_01]: Little bit we know there was going to be somebody to decide to leak.

01:07:55.147 --> 01:08:00.230
[SPEAKER_01]: to Adam Schiff and others, the call between Zelensky and the president.

01:08:00.991 --> 01:08:04.593
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember being back in Georgia, I was actually doing two weeks, Air Force, at the time.

01:08:05.213 --> 01:08:11.377
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm working between the two and the nights, and all of a sudden we started here in the Frumors, a rumblings about this issue.

01:08:11.658 --> 01:08:14.920
[SPEAKER_01]: We get back in the fall of 2019, and that was all it was.

01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:19.443
[SPEAKER_01]: The impeach in Zelensky and the stuff that we had already seen.

01:08:19.483 --> 01:08:24.426
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it was chaos in the sense of it just devolves into where nothing else happened.

01:08:24.826 --> 01:08:26.627
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what most people don't understand.

01:08:27.388 --> 01:08:31.551
[SPEAKER_01]: They see this and then the partisans are drawn to it and rightfully so, this was an inch.

01:08:31.931 --> 01:08:34.453
[SPEAKER_01]: We were fighting from the fact that this was not an issue.

01:08:34.493 --> 01:08:35.134
[SPEAKER_01]: We shouldn't be doing it.

01:08:35.454 --> 01:08:38.456
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same point down, we wasn't passing spending bills.

01:08:38.517 --> 01:08:40.678
[SPEAKER_01]: We wasn't passing anything else that held the American people.

01:08:40.778 --> 01:08:42.379
[SPEAKER_01]: We were focused on drama.

01:08:43.300 --> 01:08:44.181
[SPEAKER_01]: and that's where to work on.

01:08:44.902 --> 01:08:53.370
[SPEAKER_01]: Nowadays, because of the way it set up, Congress has to deal with the issues of that it's not necessarily what you do.

01:08:53.890 --> 01:08:56.453
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's a lot of members of Congress that are very well known.

01:08:56.973 --> 01:09:02.399
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't speak ill of them in the sense of there, but they're very well known, but they've not accomplished anything legislatively.

01:09:03.508 --> 01:09:08.169
[SPEAKER_01]: and they're named and they're actually called legislators, but they've never done anything legislatively.

01:09:09.129 --> 01:09:15.091
[SPEAKER_01]: What they have done is talk about issues, frame issues, talk about the other side, whatever.

01:09:16.191 --> 01:09:17.772
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's, you know, it has this place.

01:09:17.812 --> 01:09:24.314
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's like football, you know, like trash talking and, you know, it's you see it in USC, you see it everywhere.

01:09:24.374 --> 01:09:28.735
[SPEAKER_01]: It's there, but it shouldn't be the main, the actual contest is what we need to be doing.

01:09:28.815 --> 01:09:29.175
[SPEAKER_01]: And so,

01:09:30.375 --> 01:09:45.672
[SPEAKER_01]: I now have a unique perspective of having congressional legislative and administrative side, and so it's really interesting to look back on it and see that what make may make good media doesn't necessarily help make good policy as we go forward.

01:09:46.255 --> 01:09:49.018
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, did you get to know President Trump at that time?

01:09:49.038 --> 01:09:49.338
[SPEAKER_01]: I did.

01:09:49.658 --> 01:09:50.479
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when I got to know him.

01:09:50.919 --> 01:09:51.340
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know.

01:09:51.400 --> 01:09:52.901
[SPEAKER_02]: What was it like being introduced to him?

01:09:52.921 --> 01:09:53.802
[SPEAKER_02]: How did that relationship?

01:09:53.962 --> 01:09:54.583
[SPEAKER_01]: It was interesting.

01:09:55.864 --> 01:10:08.455
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really know when before he ran, and there was a few of us, three of the members did, but I guess I got known a little bit in 17 and 18 when I was in the leadership, but then having to walk into that role, which put us into contact, a great deal.

01:10:10.517 --> 01:10:23.980
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw somebody who really wanted to do something good, but was very frustrated with that the lies a lot of what was going on, the constant attacks, the constant, nothing was going to get done.

01:10:24.080 --> 01:10:31.721
[SPEAKER_01]: And even internally, it was just dealing with a government that he came in thinking, hey, like everybody else, let's make deals, let's work with this.

01:10:31.781 --> 01:10:33.461
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think by the time 18

01:10:36.622 --> 01:10:37.283
[SPEAKER_01]: they want to get me.

01:10:37.844 --> 01:10:39.867
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's all they want to do.

01:10:39.887 --> 01:10:43.453
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was in Fodding Mode and believe me, there's been no better president in the last.

01:10:44.254 --> 01:10:48.781
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there's another president in the last 100 years that could have listed what he listed.

01:10:49.702 --> 01:10:51.485
[SPEAKER_01]: And did what he did.

01:10:52.686 --> 01:11:09.935
[SPEAKER_01]: to fight back and to do the best he could with with what it and then to see the things that he was doing in those last part of the years I mean the the Abraham Accords the the stuff that we had going to defeating ISIS the beating these I think they don't get any discussion and I and this is not just a part of us speaking I mean I was you know, I did history in college

01:11:10.775 --> 01:11:11.776
[SPEAKER_01]: look at what happened here.

01:11:11.796 --> 01:11:16.599
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are we, you know, you may not like the individual, but you got to look at least these accomplishments.

01:11:16.719 --> 01:11:21.542
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he took on historical blackology universities, maybe permanent funding for them.

01:11:21.582 --> 01:11:30.287
[SPEAKER_01]: We took on, you know, criminal justice reform, which actually helped, you know, large positions of our population, which I had a great deal of interest in.

01:11:30.827 --> 01:11:42.255
[SPEAKER_01]: and getting them back into society and getting them back is being, you know, husbands and fathers and family members and taxpayers and getting them back to a life instead of us just incarcerating them forever and making them better criminals when they got out.

01:11:42.275 --> 01:11:46.698
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he did all of this, but yet the only thing people don't talk about is we impeached him.

01:11:46.938 --> 01:11:47.919
[SPEAKER_01]: All they want to do is impeach him.

01:11:47.939 --> 01:11:50.581
[SPEAKER_01]: They knew they had no hope of it.

01:11:51.681 --> 01:11:58.867
[SPEAKER_01]: going through, but they had to do it because that's what they're, but so with him, you could just you sense just frustration.

01:11:58.887 --> 01:12:01.409
[SPEAKER_01]: I kept up the relationship of course after the, I got out there in that year as well.

01:12:01.429 --> 01:12:02.530
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember you decided to get out.

01:12:02.550 --> 01:12:03.150
[SPEAKER_01]: I ran for Senate.

01:12:03.170 --> 01:12:11.857
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm crazy thing, but it was, that's a whole, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was,

01:12:12.097 --> 01:12:17.923
[SPEAKER_01]: another three-hour podcast, but I ran in Georgia and it was one of which we thought we could one.

01:12:18.144 --> 01:12:28.054
[SPEAKER_01]: It got our governor had played in that and appointed someone else and I ran ahead and ran because I thought we were going to, we had a chance that we could have lost Kelly left for who's now in the administration.

01:12:28.094 --> 01:12:30.937
[SPEAKER_01]: We're friends, but I just thought I could win and she could, if that's why I ran.

01:12:32.298 --> 01:12:34.640
[SPEAKER_01]: We ended up losing both seats in Georgia in 2020.

01:12:35.301 --> 01:12:39.664
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's how you have two of very conservative state has two Democrat senators.

01:12:40.685 --> 01:12:50.713
[SPEAKER_01]: And over time, but so we kept him touch and it was just over time he would call and I'd call him and we would just communicate and then his loop and then we wouldn't want you to do when you're out of a job.

01:12:51.693 --> 01:12:55.016
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I started to practice law for a little bit, and that didn't work out really well.

01:12:55.416 --> 01:12:57.218
[SPEAKER_01]: Going back to that, remember that scab we talked about?

01:12:57.238 --> 01:12:57.478
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:12:57.778 --> 01:12:58.439
[SPEAKER_01]: It just been so long.

01:12:58.479 --> 01:12:59.079
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been out of it.

01:12:59.099 --> 01:13:01.821
[SPEAKER_01]: I hadn't practiced that long anyway, and then I got back into it and enjoyed it.

01:13:01.841 --> 01:13:03.583
[SPEAKER_01]: I went with a firm this time that was really good.

01:13:03.863 --> 01:13:07.446
[SPEAKER_01]: A guy that I knew we didn't, I never worked directly.

01:13:07.666 --> 01:13:11.469
[SPEAKER_01]: But he allowed me to be a part of his office and just, you know, rent office space and stuff like that.

01:13:12.569 --> 01:13:31.902
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I took on some small case, but realized pretty quickly that I was doing some other things with, you know, staying involved in government politics, that it wasn't there and I didn't have the resources the money to hire anybody to help me, so to speak, so I just sort of after about, I'm after about eight nine months, I just, you know, I'll go do the other stuff that I was working with some.

01:13:33.022 --> 01:13:34.343
[SPEAKER_01]: consulting and doing that.

01:13:34.403 --> 01:13:35.223
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's how I got out.

01:13:36.464 --> 01:13:39.145
[SPEAKER_02]: And then what were you doing for the last campaign for Trump?

01:13:39.185 --> 01:13:40.966
[SPEAKER_02]: Were you doing anything outside the campaign?

01:13:41.006 --> 01:13:41.366
[SPEAKER_01]: We did six.

01:13:41.386 --> 01:13:41.846
[SPEAKER_01]: What you do?

01:13:42.126 --> 01:13:44.307
[SPEAKER_01]: I go to rallies.

01:13:44.347 --> 01:13:45.608
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd go do interviews.

01:13:45.788 --> 01:13:46.548
[SPEAKER_01]: I do a lot of media.

01:13:46.588 --> 01:13:48.309
[SPEAKER_01]: I did a lot of media of the last four years.

01:13:48.789 --> 01:13:55.632
[SPEAKER_01]: And so did social media, but also did Fox, did Newsmax, did, you know, CNN, did, you know,

01:14:02.435 --> 01:14:03.076
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody's TV.

01:14:03.116 --> 01:14:05.680
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's probably, you know, some of those mulleryers.

01:14:05.720 --> 01:14:08.645
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we had 25 million people watching it in one time.

01:14:08.685 --> 01:14:14.894
[SPEAKER_01]: I had clips of the opening statements are questioning that we're getting, you know, 15 million views on YouTube.

01:14:14.914 --> 01:14:16.897
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was, you know, because they were just being over and overplayed.

01:14:17.437 --> 01:14:25.965
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it raised a profile up, so I just continued some of that, and to the media, so I did a lot of interviews, a lot of commentating.

01:14:26.185 --> 01:14:29.648
[SPEAKER_01]: I did a short time to the podcast as well, did some just, you know, keeping out there.

01:14:30.128 --> 01:14:36.013
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when the campaign really kicked in, when he said he's going to run again, and then through the end of 23 and in 24.

01:14:36.253 --> 01:14:41.258
[SPEAKER_01]: So he would do rallies, I'd go speak to the rallies, you know, and keep up that way.

01:14:41.738 --> 01:14:42.879
[SPEAKER_01]: And we had always just conversed.

01:14:43.208 --> 01:15:00.815
[SPEAKER_01]: And what did you think did you did it feel like inside the campaign like Trump was going to win or was it a question and no, I always thought he I thought he's always going to be the nominee that was never a doubt I knew some of the others I had served with Ron to Santa's I had served you with others and I said no he's going to win this is the people.

01:15:02.622 --> 01:15:05.405
[SPEAKER_01]: President Trump is a force of Neatron to himself, okay?

01:15:05.465 --> 01:15:07.007
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's somebody building just to hate him.

01:15:07.027 --> 01:15:08.328
[SPEAKER_01]: There's only somebody we don't love him.

01:15:09.029 --> 01:15:11.512
[SPEAKER_01]: You rarely found anybody in the middle with that.

01:15:11.992 --> 01:15:18.379
[SPEAKER_01]: And you could tell after 2016, I mean, I look going to places in Georgia, I mean, back country Georgia, which I loved early.

01:15:18.700 --> 01:15:19.681
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's 2016 signs to live.

01:15:21.899 --> 01:15:26.102
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it goes back, and they never came down and these were not in front of Piles.

01:15:26.123 --> 01:15:34.870
[SPEAKER_01]: These were, you know, it always amazed me that just big and air literally from New York who related to common folks and you still does it for this day.

01:15:35.390 --> 01:15:36.711
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazingly, it is just it.

01:15:37.172 --> 01:15:40.374
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you could see it, and some, and then it's never went out of the campaign mode.

01:15:40.454 --> 01:15:42.356
[SPEAKER_01]: They just, it was so when 23, 24, you know, last year hit.

01:15:44.177 --> 01:15:45.999
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you just knew he was going to win.

01:15:46.039 --> 01:15:47.741
[SPEAKER_01]: He just, the numbers were there.

01:15:47.781 --> 01:15:48.621
[SPEAKER_01]: They wasn't going to take it.

01:15:49.162 --> 01:15:58.891
[SPEAKER_01]: The only question became, was, is how was the campaign going to go, um, you know, in the, all the lawsuits and the, the warfare, law fair that it was going on?

01:15:59.451 --> 01:16:00.592
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but he, amazing.

01:16:00.632 --> 01:16:07.098
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, he just, he went through it and it just showed a, uh, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a

01:16:07.218 --> 01:16:12.345
[SPEAKER_01]: the real truth about Biden started to come out and then that debate which was complete disaster.

01:16:12.366 --> 01:16:15.190
[SPEAKER_01]: I began to feel good.

01:16:15.510 --> 01:16:20.717
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought I was a little concerned right after that because in the Democrats got all fired up because they had a little split in Harrison.

01:16:21.298 --> 01:16:23.782
[SPEAKER_01]: But you could just say the president being just the president.

01:16:24.323 --> 01:16:37.561
[SPEAKER_01]: and he continued on so I felt good about it and every time I'd say we'd always sort of have the conversation and say well I said he said well I'm just gonna he said you got to come back Lisa I said let's just get you elected and I said we'll talk about it later and this way they ended up and so

01:16:38.680 --> 01:16:51.092
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for a while, it seemed like every day, I would open up the news and every day, every day that it was the news story that was gonna end Donald Trump's presence.

01:16:51.133 --> 01:16:52.574
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:16:52.874 --> 01:16:55.076
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, every day that happened.

01:16:55.717 --> 01:17:01.839
[SPEAKER_02]: And then with each day, you know, two days later, the story that was two days old was now disproven and now you had some other story that popped up.

01:17:02.239 --> 01:17:11.022
[SPEAKER_02]: And it seemed like if that was just a terrible tactic for the media and the Democrats to take, we're going to throw something at this guy every single day.

01:17:11.583 --> 01:17:18.025
[SPEAKER_02]: But instead of it piling up, it all just kind of faded away because people didn't trust them anymore of what the media was saying.

01:17:18.320 --> 01:17:25.399
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it goes back to what I, you ever had that person remember back in, maybe in a military, maybe in high school, that they would just full of crap.

01:17:27.136 --> 01:17:28.196
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I don't know why to put him.

01:17:28.656 --> 01:17:29.857
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you loved him, they're great.

01:17:29.897 --> 01:17:31.257
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's always great to hang around with.

01:17:31.517 --> 01:17:37.639
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, little whatever you call him, you know, they come out and he's, nothing came out of their mouth was like, yeah, right.

01:17:37.739 --> 01:17:41.180
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, I just saw a dry, trying to source Rex out back of the gym.

01:17:41.280 --> 01:17:42.500
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you didn't shut up, let's go on.

01:17:42.540 --> 01:17:43.141
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm like?

01:17:43.441 --> 01:17:45.721
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the sad part was they could have been a trying to source Rex.

01:17:45.741 --> 01:17:46.762
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to believe you just saw him with?

01:17:46.922 --> 01:17:47.102
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:17:47.202 --> 01:17:48.702
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's where it came with the media.

01:17:49.242 --> 01:17:50.483
[SPEAKER_01]: And they thought what?

01:17:51.381 --> 01:17:53.545
[SPEAKER_01]: would hurt him was stuff that they cared about.

01:17:53.966 --> 01:17:58.153
[SPEAKER_01]: It was because this, you know, there's been Trump arrangements syndrome, whatever you want to call.

01:17:58.173 --> 01:18:01.619
[SPEAKER_01]: There is just this fascination, but there's also a difference out here.

01:18:02.240 --> 01:18:04.063
[SPEAKER_01]: The press would hate to not have him.

01:18:05.313 --> 01:18:13.939
[SPEAKER_01]: They eat it up think about I've been with him now in the cabinet for you know, we're eight months now What other president said it is this for three hours?

01:18:15.200 --> 01:18:25.146
[SPEAKER_01]: And answer all the questions and just and yet It was so amazing as well You know Joe Biden's not had a press conference in three hundred days, but that's okay.

01:18:25.186 --> 01:18:25.927
[SPEAKER_01]: He's running the country

01:18:26.380 --> 01:18:32.344
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we never have a sit down with President Obama, you know, and, you know, they just sort of let it go.

01:18:33.105 --> 01:18:36.287
[SPEAKER_01]: Trump gives them every answer they won't, and they still drop about it.

01:18:36.407 --> 01:18:48.396
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, he said this was wrong, and this was wrong, and he put a, you know, they're, they're about the only people that I say that they use the Oxford Comer on, and he was speaking, not writing, it's like, my God, you know, they just hate it.

01:18:48.736 --> 01:18:50.638
[SPEAKER_01]: But he answers every question and people.

01:18:51.783 --> 01:18:56.325
[SPEAKER_01]: on both sides it gets to be, okay, it's just the same most simple as we go.

01:18:56.345 --> 01:19:00.686
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that I think that's what I actually brought it to light and people were, you know, frankly they were tired.

01:19:01.906 --> 01:19:09.249
[SPEAKER_01]: But now I see him in this new administration, you know, asking him between the two, he's focused, he's relaxed.

01:19:10.269 --> 01:19:16.755
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I got to know him when he was under constant siege and all of a lot of us were in that time for it.

01:19:16.835 --> 01:19:21.279
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just everything was going on and he reacted in the way you would expect and right.

01:19:21.299 --> 01:19:23.301
[SPEAKER_01]: He, he fought back and he did well.

01:19:24.402 --> 01:19:24.622
[SPEAKER_01]: Now.

01:19:26.499 --> 01:19:26.920
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, I'm here.

01:19:27.680 --> 01:19:28.381
[SPEAKER_01]: I get another chance.

01:19:29.182 --> 01:19:34.568
[SPEAKER_01]: He put together a cabinet that all of us, you know, and I know watch these people who watch this.

01:19:34.748 --> 01:19:39.554
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the least experience of the worst cabinet or it'll find whatever get a lot, you know.

01:19:39.614 --> 01:19:40.054
[SPEAKER_01]: But we're there.

01:19:40.615 --> 01:19:41.957
[SPEAKER_01]: And the interesting thing is we all work together.

01:19:42.397 --> 01:19:44.760
[SPEAKER_01]: We've either worked together or known each other for a while.

01:19:45.020 --> 01:19:45.441
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not.

01:19:45.881 --> 01:19:55.248
[SPEAKER_01]: we didn't get plucked from commerce or treasury or vets or other from these sort of silos of what you used to be built up to how you went to these administrations.

01:19:55.728 --> 01:19:57.870
[SPEAKER_01]: We actually know each of adults and I served together for years.

01:19:57.950 --> 01:19:59.231
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she's a dear friend.

01:20:00.152 --> 01:20:04.255
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't cash from working on the hill and these issues I've known.

01:20:04.555 --> 01:20:05.636
[SPEAKER_01]: Pete from Fox.

01:20:05.716 --> 01:20:07.757
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew Brooke Rollins from working with her.

01:20:07.797 --> 01:20:08.958
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew Linda from working with her.

01:20:08.978 --> 01:20:10.119
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew Pam Bondi.

01:20:11.320 --> 01:20:11.860
[SPEAKER_01]: Lee's elder.

01:20:11.900 --> 01:20:12.501
[SPEAKER_01]: We served together.

01:20:12.521 --> 01:20:12.561
[SPEAKER_01]: We

01:20:15.503 --> 01:20:16.424
[SPEAKER_01]: We work together.

01:20:16.844 --> 01:20:19.406
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are only there for one reason, make it better.

01:20:20.427 --> 01:20:26.071
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what's given the present, the ability to go set of agenda, let this agenda go.

01:20:26.111 --> 01:20:28.813
[SPEAKER_01]: It's gone, and we're coming, that we're seeing the results of the big beautiful bill.

01:20:28.853 --> 01:20:35.958
[SPEAKER_01]: We're seeing the this is slowing coming, but you're taking an economy that had been so government-centric for so long that now we're saying,

01:20:36.438 --> 01:20:59.620
[SPEAKER_01]: let the the the the real enterprise start going here and we're seeing it where veterans are being experienced because they can start jobs they can get stuff people are seeing you know inflation going down they're seeing gas prices down they're seeing the eggs down if that's the big thing for the the moment so that's when you see this stuff happening so I think he is very focused and he's willing to best I could put it I like to say this he's Trump being Trump

01:21:00.777 --> 01:21:01.617
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's pretty cool to see.

01:21:02.518 --> 01:21:03.858
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the rest of the world, think about it.

01:21:04.278 --> 01:21:05.659
[SPEAKER_01]: The rest of the world, they don't know how to deal with him.

01:21:05.679 --> 01:21:07.559
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't know how to deal with it the first time.

01:21:08.039 --> 01:21:09.480
[SPEAKER_01]: They really don't know how to deal with him now.

01:21:10.380 --> 01:21:20.623
[SPEAKER_01]: And Putin's about, in these others, where he's really working at hard, I mean, I mean, he's trying, but I think they're going to push the button, and it's just gets him to the point if he looks.

01:21:20.743 --> 01:21:21.504
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to put us first.

01:21:21.984 --> 01:21:23.644
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, I'm going to make sure our folks are protected.

01:21:24.124 --> 01:21:25.825
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, I'm going to make sure the world understands who we are.

01:21:27.718 --> 01:21:35.106
[SPEAKER_02]: So where once Trump wins, do you already know, you know, do you have a foresight of that you're going to be put in this position?

01:21:35.501 --> 01:21:36.202
[SPEAKER_01]: No, a little bit.

01:21:36.242 --> 01:21:40.806
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we had talked and they like said, he said, well, you know, I want you to come in because it was always disgusting.

01:21:40.866 --> 01:21:41.907
[SPEAKER_01]: He running for another office.

01:21:41.967 --> 01:21:43.328
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, well, sir, I want to help you in the way.

01:21:43.348 --> 01:21:44.969
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, I just want, you know, you've come to me.

01:21:45.109 --> 01:21:45.610
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a turn.

01:21:45.830 --> 01:21:46.030
[SPEAKER_01]: Fine.

01:21:46.110 --> 01:21:46.450
[SPEAKER_01]: You win.

01:21:46.550 --> 01:21:47.071
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about it.

01:21:47.772 --> 01:21:48.452
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he won.

01:21:48.492 --> 01:21:53.196
[SPEAKER_01]: And about a week later, we'd had some conversation with some of the staff as they were getting the transition done.

01:21:53.256 --> 01:21:55.538
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how it came about.

01:21:55.598 --> 01:21:57.400
[SPEAKER_01]: And he called and we were looking at several things.

01:21:57.460 --> 01:21:57.540
[SPEAKER_01]: And

01:21:58.060 --> 01:22:10.489
[SPEAKER_01]: I just looked at it from my experience being in 24-year, you know, in Air Force Navy, a lawyer-bending Congress, I remember the first VA secretary that's been a member, had been a former member of Congress since it became a cabinet position.

01:22:10.969 --> 01:22:14.511
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, to me, is vital because I understand what happens on Cavalry.

01:22:14.531 --> 01:22:16.573
[SPEAKER_02]: You understand how the sausage is, you know, you've been in believe it.

01:22:16.593 --> 01:22:17.974
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know how they were working.

01:22:18.554 --> 01:22:25.119
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, and I've had some contentious hearings in my confirmation hearing stuff, but I go back and forth with them, and I've made it very clear.

01:22:25.179 --> 01:22:26.540
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to lie about the VA.

01:22:27.240 --> 01:22:32.125
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you have your own political position, that's fine, but you're not going to use it for propaganda pieces.

01:22:32.185 --> 01:22:40.753
[SPEAKER_01]: And so many times the VA has been used by both sides, and I'll say that for political purposes, because who doesn't want to be elected off, as I say, I'm not for the veteran.

01:22:42.709 --> 01:22:43.951
[SPEAKER_01]: that's a quick way to get beat.

01:22:45.192 --> 01:22:50.798
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but they won't say there for the veteran, but yet they try to use the VA as their whipping poster to do that.

01:22:51.359 --> 01:22:55.443
[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously taking a different attitude and said, after this, so I looked at it and I said, I've got this experience.

01:22:55.823 --> 01:23:03.091
[SPEAKER_01]: President agreed, we put it in, and we've been putting that veteran-centric veteran-first perspective to the largest agency in government.

01:23:04.310 --> 01:23:10.735
[SPEAKER_02]: So now you're in the VA and there's the background of the VA, the VA has been around forever.

01:23:10.795 --> 01:23:11.256
[SPEAKER_02]: What is it?

01:23:11.536 --> 01:23:16.560
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it the second largest with what's we are with a largest survey in pure purely civilian department?

01:23:16.680 --> 01:23:16.940
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

01:23:17.040 --> 01:23:21.764
[SPEAKER_01]: We're the same size after by the end of September we're going to be we're still larger than the active duty army.

01:23:22.285 --> 01:23:30.111
[SPEAKER_02]: And I kind of opened up today talking about some that trying to paint the obvious clear picture of why the VA is so important and

01:23:31.648 --> 01:23:32.810
[SPEAKER_02]: almost all my friends.

01:23:33.691 --> 01:23:37.456
[SPEAKER_02]: Our veterans, we got in the VA.

01:23:37.576 --> 01:23:39.759
[SPEAKER_02]: It's disability compensation and pension payments.

01:23:39.899 --> 01:23:46.228
[SPEAKER_02]: It's comprehensive health care, which includes mental health, long-term care, nursing homes.

01:23:47.750 --> 01:24:09.237
[SPEAKER_02]: telehealth services, counseling, mental health services, crisis support, prescription drugs, rehabilitation services, education benefits, home loan guarantee via, via loans outstanding, life insurance programs, burial and memorial benefits, support for family caregiver, I mean, it is just a massive, massive department.

01:24:10.418 --> 01:24:20.700
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... you come on board what does it look like when you get there when you when you when you first walk in the door and you you start you start looking at what's happening there what are your immediate thoughts oh my god

01:24:22.098 --> 01:24:27.644
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really that far as I get really because I started to learn a little bit because you have to go to the confirmation so I had to start learning about the department.

01:24:27.724 --> 01:24:39.016
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though 60% of my case load as a congressman was dealing with VA issues and I had dealt with it with Johnny Eisen when he was chairman of the VA committee in the Senate and he was a dear friend of my senator from the Homestay.

01:24:39.477 --> 01:24:42.360
[SPEAKER_01]: But you began to look at the scope and scale of this.

01:24:43.000 --> 01:24:43.521
[SPEAKER_01]: of the hospital.

01:24:43.541 --> 01:24:46.645
[SPEAKER_01]: We have 170 vansies, 170 hospitals.

01:24:46.945 --> 01:24:48.186
[SPEAKER_01]: We have 1,200 clinics.

01:24:48.226 --> 01:24:53.373
[SPEAKER_01]: We're the biggest healthcare system by the world, especially at US.

01:24:54.093 --> 01:24:55.135
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we deal with that.

01:24:55.215 --> 01:24:57.698
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a massive organization, 370, 380,000 people or more.

01:25:00.861 --> 01:25:12.107
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you got our benefit side, which deal with everything that you just touched on from actual disabilities, a conversation to VBA also handled your home loans, your student loans, you know, the GI bills, those kind of things.

01:25:12.568 --> 01:25:19.872
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have our cemeteries, which is our smallest of our group, but I'm to me is one of our most precious, that we have, because of what we get to do.

01:25:20.432 --> 01:25:24.594
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I was just here yesterday, spent some time at a Rose of Crans and went by Mike

01:25:29.517 --> 01:25:37.623
[SPEAKER_01]: And but I looked at it what I began to see and I started having these meetings and get the picture and if you ever have a chance I'd love for you to come see my office.

01:25:37.663 --> 01:25:57.138
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll show you where this was and we've said there and they've encouraged coming in and saying well sorry here's here's what we're doing and they would come with you with questions and I wasn't raised in the VA it was not a you know so the sense because I see it from the outside so I just asked questions is an outsider would ask questions and so my favorite line in the series to this day and I talk about all the time I just asked why

01:25:57.908 --> 01:25:59.029
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll say, well, here's what we're doing.

01:26:00.090 --> 01:26:00.550
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll say, what?

01:26:05.274 --> 01:26:06.915
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and then try to move on.

01:26:06.935 --> 01:26:09.537
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, no, no, no, explain to me why we do it this way.

01:26:09.557 --> 01:26:10.398
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, it may be perfect.

01:26:10.438 --> 01:26:11.459
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, but just explain to me why?

01:26:11.779 --> 01:26:12.240
[SPEAKER_01]: Couldn't explain.

01:26:12.280 --> 01:26:13.220
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times they just couldn't explain.

01:26:13.561 --> 01:26:14.461
[SPEAKER_01]: Or then I would get this.

01:26:15.002 --> 01:26:15.682
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's statute.

01:26:16.103 --> 01:26:17.163
[SPEAKER_01]: We just have to follow the statute.

01:26:18.120 --> 01:26:20.001
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was in Congress for eight years.

01:26:20.161 --> 01:26:20.762
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm all here.

01:26:20.782 --> 01:26:21.082
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm all here.

01:26:21.162 --> 01:26:22.263
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know all here.

01:26:22.303 --> 01:26:25.004
[SPEAKER_01]: So I said, we'll show me the statute now.

01:26:25.024 --> 01:26:26.705
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll, I'd love to see the statute now.

01:26:26.725 --> 01:26:28.987
[SPEAKER_01]: Say, and if we need to change, I'll go to Congress and we'll work on changing it.

01:26:29.167 --> 01:26:30.047
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, but show me the statute.

01:26:34.330 --> 01:26:36.491
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it is policy and procedure.

01:26:37.392 --> 01:26:38.392
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a regulation.

01:26:38.432 --> 01:26:39.313
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, now we're getting somewhere.

01:26:40.035 --> 01:26:41.896
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, statute, I have to work with Congress.

01:26:42.596 --> 01:26:43.036
[SPEAKER_01]: That's law.

01:26:43.476 --> 01:26:44.257
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to follow law.

01:26:45.077 --> 01:26:46.618
[SPEAKER_01]: As if a policy in pursuit of regulation.

01:26:47.178 --> 01:26:47.538
[SPEAKER_01]: That's me.

01:26:47.958 --> 01:26:48.358
[SPEAKER_01]: That's us.

01:26:48.979 --> 01:26:49.599
[SPEAKER_01]: That's called a pin.

01:26:50.939 --> 01:26:52.900
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, if we're doing something, we don't need to be doing it.

01:26:52.920 --> 01:26:55.361
[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing it in a way this counterintuitive draw mission.

01:26:55.381 --> 01:26:56.182
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, we're going to change it.

01:26:56.802 --> 01:26:58.082
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's what we've done so far.

01:26:58.963 --> 01:27:03.885
[SPEAKER_01]: What happened was, and if you think of it in silos, is really truly siloed to siloed.

01:27:04.165 --> 01:27:08.647
[SPEAKER_01]: We see this in the military, on force and it's where we get in trouble, when we have siloed missions.

01:27:09.747 --> 01:27:13.090
[SPEAKER_01]: Our health mission became very solid because it's the largest, okay?

01:27:13.390 --> 01:27:15.872
[SPEAKER_01]: So they just developed their own procedures, they developed their own protocol.

01:27:16.293 --> 01:27:17.874
[SPEAKER_01]: Every hospital thought they were a startup.

01:27:17.974 --> 01:27:19.616
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had to fight this from day one.

01:27:19.996 --> 01:27:25.401
[SPEAKER_01]: I remind them if you have the AL inside of your building, you're not a startup, you're not by yourself, and you're not at luck you are.

01:27:26.241 --> 01:27:32.066
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are we wasting the possibilities of 170 hospitals being standardized to actually do stuff the right way?

01:27:33.047 --> 01:27:47.831
[SPEAKER_01]: Jack, I was amazed, I had a young man tell me one day, he was amputee, told me he was getting a treatment in one facility and moved to another facility across country and the facility he moved to, the VA, we don't do that.

01:27:48.751 --> 01:27:53.873
[SPEAKER_01]: He said I just came from a facility's right, this was done, oh well, I don't care, we don't do that.

01:27:55.563 --> 01:28:15.352
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what we think something's wrong so yeah, something's wrong in this picture You know somebody pull the rip cork because there's a problem here This is what we saw so I saw I saw a lot of people doing what I do good work But the problem was it was we've always done it that way before I think that's the old Baptist preacher me now that didn't tolerate that at all Well, I've always done it that way for so why we're not

01:28:16.132 --> 01:28:19.155
[SPEAKER_01]: We added in 10 years, so 25, 15 to 25.

01:28:19.215 --> 01:28:25.681
[SPEAKER_01]: We added over 100 billion are more in budget and over 100,000 people.

01:28:26.962 --> 01:28:29.645
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what's happened to our quote metrics?

01:28:29.665 --> 01:28:30.446
[SPEAKER_01]: I went through all the way.

01:28:30.466 --> 01:28:31.907
[SPEAKER_01]: I went through all the way.

01:28:31.947 --> 01:28:37.492
[SPEAKER_01]: By the time I got in, we had 260,000 backlog disability claims when I took office on February 5th.

01:28:37.552 --> 01:28:38.333
[SPEAKER_01]: That means there are over 125 days.

01:28:40.415 --> 01:28:41.456
[SPEAKER_01]: And some were a lot along that.

01:28:42.177 --> 01:28:44.919
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, we're going to put a tag team on it.

01:28:44.959 --> 01:28:46.160
[SPEAKER_01]: We put over time in it.

01:28:46.180 --> 01:28:46.841
[SPEAKER_01]: We put us.

01:28:47.081 --> 01:28:49.343
[SPEAKER_01]: We're now under 150 did that in less than four months.

01:28:50.124 --> 01:28:52.185
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just just a matter of what gets measured gets done.

01:28:53.867 --> 01:28:58.971
[SPEAKER_01]: And we looked at, I just got a report on our VHA system in which we started putting stuff like best medical interest.

01:28:58.991 --> 01:29:00.773
[SPEAKER_01]: So if a member comes in,

01:29:01.253 --> 01:29:07.536
[SPEAKER_01]: and they say, you know, look, I would rather go to my cardiologist in a close to my home or it's just in town.

01:29:07.917 --> 01:29:08.577
[SPEAKER_01]: I love you to VA.

01:29:08.617 --> 01:29:15.000
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to get other care here, but I want to go there then the doctor can send me say, yep, we're going to send you over there and it not have to go through another doctor or anything else.

01:29:15.401 --> 01:29:18.442
[SPEAKER_01]: So look, and I'm going to say this because here's the thing.

01:29:18.662 --> 01:29:24.606
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll guarantee you what's going to happen is when this comes out, you're going to send the comment section, oh, Secretary's full of crap.

01:29:24.946 --> 01:29:25.986
[SPEAKER_01]: I went and it was awful.

01:29:26.066 --> 01:29:26.727
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't get this.

01:29:28.147 --> 01:29:35.417
[SPEAKER_01]: Bear with me, some of it I'm going to like this because I don't put the VA, the organization is not, we're a service organization designed to help veterans.

01:29:35.597 --> 01:29:37.560
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not an organization designed to help ourselves.

01:29:38.580 --> 01:29:40.862
[SPEAKER_01]: And you may have had a bad experience and I understand that.

01:29:41.462 --> 01:29:42.863
[SPEAKER_01]: You may have still had a bad experience.

01:29:42.903 --> 01:29:46.025
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, comment on there because here's an interesting thing.

01:29:46.145 --> 01:29:50.067
[SPEAKER_01]: When you talk about early me coming into this position, I had a very high profile.

01:29:50.087 --> 01:29:54.090
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm on the highest profile social media and others that's ever started in this position.

01:29:54.810 --> 01:29:58.373
[SPEAKER_01]: I could probably give the names of others and they were great people, but nobody would know them anywhere.

01:29:59.402 --> 01:30:08.790
[SPEAKER_01]: So what we've had, we found out early on is when I posted on social media Twitter, Instagram, these others, we were having massive response because I had a huge, you know, large following.

01:30:09.551 --> 01:30:13.874
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have now put internally a group that actually reads those comments.

01:30:14.114 --> 01:30:17.998
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have actually started doing constituent and reaching out of these folks.

01:30:18.258 --> 01:30:22.561
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't encourage that because I mean, we may miss one, but we're actually doing this to say, look,

01:30:23.593 --> 01:30:25.614
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to get better, okay?

01:30:26.034 --> 01:30:27.674
[SPEAKER_01]: You may say that we're not moving fast enough.

01:30:27.694 --> 01:30:28.675
[SPEAKER_01]: You may say it's easy.

01:30:28.755 --> 01:30:31.176
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're 450,000 people.

01:30:32.476 --> 01:30:34.777
[SPEAKER_01]: 170 hospitals, I'm trying to get across to every one of them.

01:30:35.337 --> 01:30:37.158
[SPEAKER_01]: As we do this, give us some time.

01:30:37.658 --> 01:30:38.958
[SPEAKER_01]: If you got the feedback, let us know.

01:30:39.318 --> 01:30:41.899
[SPEAKER_01]: We're willing to take feedback, and I'm willing to make changes.

01:30:43.580 --> 01:30:49.802
[SPEAKER_01]: But as we go through this, I'm also having to take an organization that has been very adapted doing it the way they wanted to do it.

01:30:50.837 --> 01:30:54.682
[SPEAKER_01]: So they were had no problem in having not having extended hours.

01:30:55.603 --> 01:31:11.100
[SPEAKER_01]: I've implemented a program in which we've added almost a million to 1,000 extra hours of service in just the last few months at our sea box, because we actually keep in some people late where I put it on weekends, that gives, you know, our younger veterans a chance to get there.

01:31:11.601 --> 01:31:14.062
[SPEAKER_01]: We're listening, we know the best medical interest stuff.

01:31:14.182 --> 01:31:15.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Get you out where you need to go.

01:31:15.542 --> 01:31:21.723
[SPEAKER_01]: We're looking at holding our doctors accountable in the community to get the stuff back so that we can make sure.

01:31:21.863 --> 01:31:25.224
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not the simple things that take so much time.

01:31:25.604 --> 01:31:27.105
[SPEAKER_01]: We're saying, let's take those out.

01:31:27.705 --> 01:31:40.508
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting to the point now, and some are not as happy about this because they're invested in how they do it, but others are getting on to it is if I've of the opinion that no veteran whose earned a benefit should have to have anybody to help them get that benefit.

01:31:41.108 --> 01:31:42.890
[SPEAKER_01]: In other words, this paper should be simple enough.

01:31:43.230 --> 01:31:46.153
[SPEAKER_01]: The process should be simple enough that they can get to benefit the different.

01:31:46.573 --> 01:31:49.916
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of having to go to somebody else, it's like, I don't understand this.

01:31:49.936 --> 01:31:50.196
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not.

01:31:50.516 --> 01:31:51.477
[SPEAKER_01]: We actually have a form.

01:31:51.497 --> 01:31:53.719
[SPEAKER_01]: They're still in our form and I'm trying to get this out, but it's still in there.

01:31:54.740 --> 01:31:58.964
[SPEAKER_01]: Own disability claims that actually ask for the person's military history where they had started doing everything else.

01:32:00.747 --> 01:32:02.888
[SPEAKER_01]: I look at this, I think it's a dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life.

01:32:03.168 --> 01:32:06.908
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll let me do your name, your so-so-care number, your DD-24 thing, or even just that.

01:32:07.209 --> 01:32:08.349
[SPEAKER_01]: I can pull your entire record.

01:32:08.389 --> 01:32:09.149
[SPEAKER_01]: I know everywhere you've been.

01:32:09.569 --> 01:32:10.789
[SPEAKER_01]: Why am I making them fill that out?

01:32:11.290 --> 01:32:13.710
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we just thought it would be good to ask.

01:32:13.750 --> 01:32:15.150
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't do that anymore.

01:32:15.411 --> 01:32:24.613
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can say for those out there who look, we're a healthcare system, and this is one thing I want to emphasize to all you're listening.

01:32:25.913 --> 01:32:28.554
[SPEAKER_01]: Congress put metrics out there and we hear this all the time.

01:32:28.574 --> 01:32:29.634
[SPEAKER_01]: You hear about wait times.

01:32:29.774 --> 01:32:31.655
[SPEAKER_01]: You hear about these others.

01:32:32.115 --> 01:32:34.795
[SPEAKER_01]: Where the only health care system in the world that measures wait times.

01:32:35.455 --> 01:32:43.498
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's because Congress, and I was there when we did this mission act and everything else, it was because we were having issues in Phoenix and others where they people were getting, you know, when getting scheduled appointments.

01:32:43.518 --> 01:32:44.458
[SPEAKER_01]: So we said, how do we,

01:32:45.458 --> 01:33:05.358
[SPEAKER_01]: get a handle on this and make sure okay so if you don't have a appointment within 10 days you can go to the community well I'm sort of redoing that all together so we're not really worried about it but no other health care system here in California anywhere else deals in that it's just something we can look at but it also gives a false reality of what the VA can look like you could have a great wait times in terrible quality

01:33:06.374 --> 01:33:11.200
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm trying to get us back to a standard of quality being the metric, not the wait times.

01:33:11.681 --> 01:33:19.791
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to continue to get you in as quickly as possible, but also I need you to know, and again, you know, here from, I've already seen this enough, they cancel my diploma last week.

01:33:20.111 --> 01:33:23.696
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, guess what, I'm in private health care, my daughter cancel my diploma last week.

01:33:24.647 --> 01:33:41.143
[SPEAKER_01]: because they get sick, they can't come in, they got overboard, they had to go to a trip where a health organization, and now if I have the media getting on me, say, well you have people leaving, you have doctors that you need more doctors certain areas, I said, yeah, have you done a story lately on the hospitals in town that they have doctor shortages as well?

01:33:42.384 --> 01:33:48.470
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they don't want to talk about that, because it's easy to get on the veteran because it's a hard string issue.

01:33:50.001 --> 01:33:53.085
[SPEAKER_01]: I have the veteran at my heart center, getting up.

01:33:53.226 --> 01:33:53.666
[SPEAKER_01]: I am one.

01:33:54.167 --> 01:33:55.048
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been there.

01:33:55.729 --> 01:33:56.850
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing I'm going to do.

01:33:57.371 --> 01:33:59.314
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to be focused on getting them what they need.

01:34:00.115 --> 01:34:03.239
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, I'm also tired of the society that looks at veterans' victims.

01:34:03.900 --> 01:34:05.001
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not victims.

01:34:05.702 --> 01:34:14.345
[SPEAKER_01]: You may, I may have people and I met so many, they may have lost legs, arms, everything, they're not victims, they're just now in a power to do it in a different way and we're going to help them do whatever we can.

01:34:14.965 --> 01:34:23.729
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's my philosophy and it ruffles some ages and, you know, because, oh, you're killing morale, we're getting back to doing what we're supposed to be doing.

01:34:24.369 --> 01:34:25.729
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love everyone of my VA employees.

01:34:25.789 --> 01:34:27.250
[SPEAKER_01]: I want them to be the best they can be.

01:34:28.394 --> 01:34:29.955
[SPEAKER_01]: but we're also going to have standardization.

01:34:30.675 --> 01:34:31.935
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to do it the same way.

01:34:32.656 --> 01:34:34.956
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the calisthenics are on the same way everywhere.

01:34:35.717 --> 01:34:41.119
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, but when you've not had that, it's been a situation in which we've had a system that was good.

01:34:41.219 --> 01:34:44.080
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to, I never will, that's me.

01:34:45.060 --> 01:34:46.521
[SPEAKER_01]: But every system can get better.

01:34:47.721 --> 01:34:53.824
[SPEAKER_01]: And every organization that's not looked at us up, I got you one because I know you do organizational stuff and everything.

01:34:54.204 --> 01:34:59.226
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you realize that the first week that I got there I asked for how many employees we had, it took a week and a half for them to tell me.

01:35:02.170 --> 01:35:12.137
[SPEAKER_01]: And right now, a big headline came out about a week ago because we're doing organizational charts in manning documents, okay, just think about what I just said, manning documents.

01:35:12.257 --> 01:35:13.117
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been eight months in.

01:35:13.157 --> 01:35:13.578
[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing this.

01:35:13.818 --> 01:35:18.481
[SPEAKER_01]: It got leaked to the process and, oh, there's organizational and change of manning, yeah, I'm doing a manning document.

01:35:18.521 --> 01:35:21.223
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me any company in the world that doesn't have a manning document.

01:35:21.243 --> 01:35:22.223
[SPEAKER_01]: I come from the military side.

01:35:22.283 --> 01:35:24.485
[SPEAKER_01]: I was at Africa headquarters for chaplains.

01:35:25.005 --> 01:35:34.739
[SPEAKER_01]: I could tell you where every billet I had, I could tell you who was assigned to that billet, who was in that bill, who was coming out of that billet, and I go to the largest health care system in the world, and you can't tell me a man in the document, or a child.

01:35:36.281 --> 01:35:37.403
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how bad it was.

01:35:37.583 --> 01:35:39.185
[SPEAKER_01]: So you asked, that's where it was.

01:35:39.706 --> 01:35:40.347
[SPEAKER_01]: We're moving forward.

01:35:41.205 --> 01:36:08.195
[SPEAKER_01]: well change is coming and uh... changes come today for us because i know you got called back to dc and we're short on time we got to get you on a flight out of here so uh... any other closing thoughts before we get you out of here no job i appreciate what you're doing and just to tell you about it one of the things is and says it's always especially those if you're listening to this and maybe you're out there somewhere you think you're alone you're not okay don't ever thank you alone and i'm calling all veterans and i know this the folks who listen spot catch

01:36:09.693 --> 01:36:13.318
[SPEAKER_01]: It's amazing how we had a camaraderie when we were in and we seemed to forget it when we leave.

01:36:13.799 --> 01:36:15.442
[SPEAKER_01]: Those battle buddies, wingmen, those folks.

01:36:15.942 --> 01:36:24.174
[SPEAKER_01]: If something is on your heart, you hadn't taught them in a while, text them, call them, do some, because right now we're losing 17 or more today to death by suicide.

01:36:24.735 --> 01:36:28.837
[SPEAKER_01]: Many of them as you start it off this whole thing, we're trying our best in the VA to get to miss help.

01:36:29.197 --> 01:36:31.498
[SPEAKER_01]: Many of them has helped, but the bottom are never going to ask for help.

01:36:31.698 --> 01:36:32.638
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just looking for a buddy.

01:36:32.799 --> 01:36:37.881
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just looking for someone to listen and all I ask is that we all work at this together going forward.

01:36:38.021 --> 01:36:52.307
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do everything I can for the VA and the VA is going to work for veterans and we're going to do it across our board and nobody ever question, you know, if they want a question, I believe fine, but I just say prove it because I'm working it is every day, but we've all got the part to play here.

01:36:52.748 --> 01:36:56.739
[SPEAKER_01]: and the VA is no longer going to be the, oh we're going to make it better and we're going to do it.

01:36:56.799 --> 01:36:58.403
[SPEAKER_01]: Now the VA is going to be the best we can be.

01:36:58.584 --> 01:36:59.647
[SPEAKER_01]: Our standards are going to be high.

01:37:00.512 --> 01:37:03.454
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not going to let anybody for you, if we're doing it wrong, I'm going to fix it.

01:37:04.234 --> 01:37:14.761
[SPEAKER_01]: If we're doing it right, I'm going to fight you with it because I'm not going to let anybody take because when I see so many of this happening and they start lying about what's going on, I tell them don't think about the situation that you're lying about.

01:37:14.802 --> 01:37:22.246
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about the person who hears this, it's a veteran out there that 60% of our veterans who have death by suicide have never had contact with the VA.

01:37:23.228 --> 01:37:30.213
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, if you keep telling them that the VA's bad, or you keep telling them this, and you don't go follow up with the right answer, then they're gonna stay away.

01:37:31.194 --> 01:37:34.476
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you keep doing that and you're lying to them and scaring them, then you're part of the problem.

01:37:34.936 --> 01:37:44.143
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for me, it's just about putting it all together and saying, you know, let's take this time, let's make this work because we have men and women who want to serve this country, who raise that right hand.

01:37:44.483 --> 01:37:45.364
[SPEAKER_01]: They've earned a benefit.

01:37:45.604 --> 01:37:46.664
[SPEAKER_01]: Our country said we're gonna do it.

01:37:47.225 --> 01:37:48.666
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, bye God, we're gonna do it.

01:37:49.446 --> 01:37:49.767
[SPEAKER_02]: Indeed.

01:37:49.907 --> 01:37:51.227
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much for joining us.

01:37:51.708 --> 01:37:52.908
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for your service and the Navy.

01:37:53.469 --> 01:37:53.789
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

01:37:53.809 --> 01:37:54.850
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for the Air Force.

01:37:55.130 --> 01:37:57.912
[SPEAKER_02]: And thanks for what you're doing today to take care of veterans.

01:37:57.932 --> 01:37:59.272
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm much appreciate it.

01:37:59.292 --> 01:37:59.613
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

01:37:59.693 --> 01:38:00.273
[SPEAKER_02]: Talk appreciate it.

01:38:01.895 --> 01:38:04.877
[SPEAKER_02]: And with that Secretary Collins has left the building.

01:38:05.838 --> 01:38:16.226
[SPEAKER_02]: And as I mentioned during the podcast, he got called back to Washington DC, surprisingly, or whatever it was, surprised to them, they got called back to DC.

01:38:16.867 --> 01:38:21.490
[SPEAKER_02]: With some project or tasking or something like that, so, unfortunately, couldn't stick around very long.

01:38:22.331 --> 01:38:24.391
[SPEAKER_02]: but uh, great to have him on.

01:38:24.471 --> 01:38:29.072
[SPEAKER_02]: And just just FYI, he mentioned his social media and that they're actually doing stuff for their social media.

01:38:29.092 --> 01:38:29.793
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a couple of things.

01:38:31.053 --> 01:38:38.214
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, for to find Secretary Collins himself, he's on Twitter acts at

01:38:46.576 --> 01:38:48.578
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's where he is.

01:38:48.858 --> 01:38:50.059
[SPEAKER_02]: So it kind of has two.

01:38:50.480 --> 01:38:52.241
[SPEAKER_02]: And then same thing with Instagram.

01:38:52.261 --> 01:38:57.265
[SPEAKER_02]: He's at sec vet affairs and then at Doug Collins GA.

01:38:57.385 --> 01:39:01.089
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I'd focus on the at sec vet affairs since it's current job.

01:39:02.029 --> 01:39:08.295
[SPEAKER_02]: And then for the VA itself, for the VA itself on the interwebs VA.gov.

01:39:10.084 --> 01:39:16.466
[SPEAKER_02]: And then on Instagram, Twitter, X, and YouTube, it's at Depart Dep, D-E-P-T, vet affairs.

01:39:17.866 --> 01:39:19.266
[SPEAKER_02]: And then on Facebook, it's a U.S.

01:39:19.286 --> 01:39:20.206
[SPEAKER_02]: Department of Veterinary Affairs.

01:39:20.406 --> 01:39:21.327
[SPEAKER_02]: So there you go.

01:39:21.687 --> 01:39:24.707
[SPEAKER_02]: And as I mentioned, they're paying attention to that social media.

01:39:25.108 --> 01:39:30.349
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you need to pass some word and whatnot, then that seems that could place to do it.

01:39:31.429 --> 01:39:36.590
[SPEAKER_02]: And as you leave, and we'll try and get a chance to get him back on here and

01:39:40.531 --> 01:39:43.934
[SPEAKER_02]: things at a bunch of topics we we're going to cover but we just we just ran out of time.

01:39:44.174 --> 01:40:09.294
[SPEAKER_02]: So so I go sometimes but one thing we do know is this your mind and your body are attached and that was one of the things that you know we really didn't get to it but it's one of the things that I wanted to talk about just your mind and your body are attached and if you're strong and your body there's a decent chance you'll be strong and your mind and so doing things like training is very helpful

01:40:09.974 --> 01:40:12.937
[SPEAKER_02]: When you train, guess where you need echo trails?

01:40:13.638 --> 01:40:13.878
[SPEAKER_02]: Feel.

01:40:14.199 --> 01:40:14.559
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

01:40:14.579 --> 01:40:15.820
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought you're going to say rest.

01:40:16.521 --> 01:40:17.702
[SPEAKER_02]: If you are, you need rest.

01:40:18.163 --> 01:40:18.703
[SPEAKER_02]: You need fuel.

01:40:19.124 --> 01:40:20.325
[SPEAKER_02]: So check out jockofffield.com.

01:40:20.725 --> 01:40:22.107
[SPEAKER_02]: Get yourself some hydra.

01:40:22.167 --> 01:40:26.511
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm having a hydrate right now because I ran this morning a little further than I wanted to.

01:40:27.392 --> 01:40:32.654
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we had various activities that were happening on the run, we had dogs, the beach was looking tempting the whole night yards.

01:40:33.335 --> 01:40:39.678
[SPEAKER_02]: So ended up probably losing quite a bit of sweat and then just rolled right in here with a hydrate.

01:40:39.738 --> 01:40:44.060
[SPEAKER_02]: So hydrate energy drinks, the whole night is protein, you need protein.

01:40:44.380 --> 01:40:47.081
[SPEAKER_02]: Check out jacophil.com or check out whatever you shop.

01:40:48.476 --> 01:40:49.836
[SPEAKER_02]: We're getting there.

01:40:50.476 --> 01:40:57.058
[SPEAKER_02]: You can probably like, it's up this street for my house at my local Jensen's supermarket.

01:40:57.158 --> 01:40:58.398
[SPEAKER_02]: You can get jog of you right now.

01:40:58.878 --> 01:41:06.580
[SPEAKER_02]: So check it out, the best cleanest stuff for your system, your fuel, jog of your bottle, and check it out.

01:41:06.900 --> 01:41:12.782
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, OriginUSA, we're doing these efforts in America to bring manufacturing back right now.

01:41:13.402 --> 01:41:16.923
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we've been doing that for a while at OriginUSA.

01:41:19.644 --> 01:41:26.088
[SPEAKER_02]: Manufacturing is a key component of a nation, and we were selling that out overseas.

01:41:26.268 --> 01:41:37.756
[SPEAKER_02]: So at Origin, we are bringing it back, check out OrgenUSA.com, you need T-shirt hoodie, whatever you need, training shorts, I got the Nile lock training shorts, they're good to go.

01:41:38.016 --> 01:41:41.018
[SPEAKER_02]: For the 4GG2 training, good to go.

01:41:41.659 --> 01:41:44.801
[SPEAKER_02]: So check it out OrgenUSA.com, get yourselves some boots, jeans, whatever you need.

01:41:45.822 --> 01:41:51.207
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, JockelStore.com is where you can get your shirts representing on the pad.

01:41:51.608 --> 01:41:52.649
[SPEAKER_00]: Discipline equals freedom.

01:41:53.450 --> 01:41:53.770
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.

01:41:54.250 --> 01:41:57.073
[SPEAKER_00]: These notions that we need and that we have on the pad.

01:41:57.093 --> 01:41:58.455
[SPEAKER_00]: You can represent those.

01:41:58.795 --> 01:41:59.115
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, yeah.

01:41:59.315 --> 01:42:01.277
[SPEAKER_00]: Some good stuff on there, some socks on there too, even.

01:42:01.297 --> 01:42:02.879
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very good.

01:42:03.019 --> 01:42:05.582
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, we have a lot of new stuff coming.

01:42:06.911 --> 01:42:33.853
[SPEAKER_00]: get after it's standby to get some of these shirts that we know but at two point of scenarios like two point of scenarios exactly right you know because we've had these on the on the store for a long time but it's might be time for an update anyway if you're interested in any new stuff you can put your email in the little email list there I won't spam I don't spam I'm against spam spam spamming so yeah but we'll keep you updated as far as new stuff and when it comes out because a lot of times

01:42:34.620 --> 01:42:46.026
[SPEAKER_00]: Things summed everyone's all that gets sold out and you got to wait for the new thing and it can be a thing But if you get into it you get the heads up through the email boom you can get your ears when they come up It's the best time to do it.

01:42:46.106 --> 01:42:53.590
[SPEAKER_00]: Also short locker Subscriptions and arrow new design every month people seem to like it designs a little bit outside the box sometimes

01:42:54.367 --> 01:43:02.093
[SPEAKER_02]: to remember smack bag in the middle of the box sometimes exactly right it's kind of the I Know that my dog is like the shirt lockers shirts.

01:43:02.233 --> 01:43:06.916
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they don't like the standard issue stuff Yeah, like the shirt lockers shirts sometimes they can be fun.

01:43:07.277 --> 01:43:07.397
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

01:43:07.617 --> 01:43:08.658
[SPEAKER_00]: You know the designs are fun.

01:43:08.798 --> 01:43:22.248
[SPEAKER_00]: You know that that's why I'm with you and Or I'm with them on these notions the last one or sorry the next one the current one right now is Viking runes, I think themed

01:43:22.928 --> 01:43:24.490
[SPEAKER_00]: How come discipline equals freedom?

01:43:25.111 --> 01:43:26.553
[SPEAKER_02]: I did, did you send me one?

01:43:26.974 --> 01:43:27.615
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, yes.

01:43:27.935 --> 01:43:31.240
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you want to see, you know, you want to see kind of kind of like a hint of what they look like.

01:43:31.300 --> 01:43:33.223
[SPEAKER_00]: Go on Jockelsword.com, click on this shirt lockie.

01:43:33.243 --> 01:43:34.204
[SPEAKER_00]: You can see what it's all about.

01:43:34.264 --> 01:43:34.544
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?

01:43:34.564 --> 01:43:35.966
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all going to follow on Jockelsword.com.

01:43:36.857 --> 01:43:40.318
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, also Dave Burke has it but coming out.

01:43:40.618 --> 01:43:42.239
[SPEAKER_02]: It's called the need to lead.

01:43:42.739 --> 01:43:51.121
[SPEAKER_02]: It comes out in October Order it now to get the I wrote the forward to it order it now to get the first dash you want that first Adish also echelon front we have a leadership consultancy.

01:43:51.421 --> 01:43:51.841
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what we do.

01:43:52.202 --> 01:44:00.404
[SPEAKER_02]: We saw a problem suit leadership Go to echelon front dot com if you need help inside your organization also check out extreme ownership dot com It's our online training academy

01:44:01.860 --> 01:44:04.681
[SPEAKER_02]: can learn how to lead in the comfort of your own home.

01:44:06.081 --> 01:44:06.602
[SPEAKER_02]: It's important.

01:44:06.982 --> 01:44:10.963
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, if you want to help service members active and retired, you want to help their families go to our families.

01:44:11.403 --> 01:44:13.624
[SPEAKER_02]: Check out Mark Lee's mom, Mamla Lee.

01:44:13.644 --> 01:44:15.184
[SPEAKER_02]: She's got an amazing charity organization.

01:44:15.204 --> 01:44:19.046
[SPEAKER_02]: And actually, there's a little gap in service sometimes with the VA.

01:44:19.266 --> 01:44:20.446
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's some things that they don't cover.

01:44:20.786 --> 01:44:21.927
[SPEAKER_02]: Mamla Lee comes into play.

01:44:22.747 --> 01:44:43.627
[SPEAKER_02]: with america's mighty warriors dot org she can help cover that gap so check that out if you want to if you want to donate or get involved also check out heroes and horses dot org and of course Jimmy may as organization beyond the brotherhood dot org once again to connect with the secretary

01:44:44.948 --> 01:44:55.998
[SPEAKER_02]: TwitterX, it's at SEC that affairs and at rep Doug Collins on Instagram's at SEC that affairs and at Doug Collins GA and for the VA.

01:44:57.279 --> 01:45:05.107
[SPEAKER_02]: On the inner webs, it's VA.com and then Instagram TwitterX YouTube at Department DEPT that affairs.

01:45:06.508 --> 01:45:06.788
[SPEAKER_02]: For us,

01:45:10.172 --> 01:45:13.858
[SPEAKER_02]: And then on social media, I'm at Jaco Willink and echoed that echoed Charles.

01:45:13.958 --> 01:45:15.600
[SPEAKER_02]: Just be careful because there's an algorithm there.

01:45:17.323 --> 01:45:19.026
[SPEAKER_02]: And you don't want to spend all your time in that algorithm.

01:45:19.566 --> 01:45:22.831
[SPEAKER_02]: And you also don't want your your main.

01:45:24.895 --> 01:45:32.579
[SPEAKER_02]: place for action to be posting stuff, you know, yes, not what you want to do in your life.

01:45:33.039 --> 01:45:34.260
[SPEAKER_02]: So just be careful with the algorithm.

01:45:34.520 --> 01:45:34.860
[SPEAKER_02]: It's there.

01:45:35.500 --> 01:45:38.102
[SPEAKER_02]: Once again, thanks to the honorable Doug Collins for joining us.

01:45:38.142 --> 01:45:39.222
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for your service and the military.

01:45:39.262 --> 01:45:40.583
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for your service and the government sake.

01:45:40.743 --> 01:45:44.565
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for your service as the secretary taking care of our veterans.

01:45:45.005 --> 01:45:46.826
[SPEAKER_02]: We appreciate what you are doing.

01:45:47.106 --> 01:45:50.468
[SPEAKER_02]: And thanks to all of our military around the world, active, beauty, and our veterans,

01:45:51.668 --> 01:46:18.738
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, thank you for your service for what you are doing right now and for what you have done And also thanks for our police law enforcement fire fighters paramedics EMTs dispatchers correction officers border patrol secret services as well as all other first responders Thank you first your service protecting us here at home and for everyone else out there whether you're a veteran or not You are possibly likely in one of these three situations

01:46:19.742 --> 01:46:21.243
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you're doing okay and you got things handled.

01:46:22.223 --> 01:46:22.744
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's great.

01:46:23.784 --> 01:46:24.384
[SPEAKER_02]: Stay on the path.

01:46:25.225 --> 01:46:26.585
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe things are going well for you.

01:46:28.867 --> 01:46:33.109
[SPEAKER_02]: And if things are going well for you, then maybe you have the capacity to help others.

01:46:33.609 --> 01:46:38.932
[SPEAKER_02]: And if that's the position you're in, where you got a little capacity, well then you know what to do, help some other people out.

01:46:41.473 --> 01:46:45.655
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you also might be a person who's in a spot right now, where you need some help.

01:46:48.322 --> 01:46:55.993
[SPEAKER_02]: and that's normal and everyone's been there and ask for help and hang in there and things will get better.

01:46:56.533 --> 01:46:57.294
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the way it works.

01:46:59.377 --> 01:47:04.965
[SPEAKER_02]: So hang tough and that's all I've got for tonight and until next time, DeZecco and Jocco out.