Sept. 28, 2026
Jocko Underground: The Reality When Your Boss Sucks and You Don't Respect Him At All.
>Join Jocko Underground Full Episodes<
00:40 — How do I respect a leader I don’t respect or trust?
15:21 — How do I solve problems aggressively without being out of control?
27:22 — Should I keep pursuing more responsibility if it’s making work stressful?
38:55 — How do I stay calm when my kids are melting down?
54:38 — How important is competing in Jiu-Jitsu, and is it worth the injury risk?
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content
WEBVTT
00:00.131 --> 00:03.812
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the Jockel underground podcast number 230 sitting here with echo trails and me.
00:04.432 --> 00:14.114
[SPEAKER_01]: Jockel will link where you have got some questions from the front lines from you out there where the rubber meets the road in the trenches and we have some answers.
00:14.654 --> 00:24.877
[SPEAKER_01]: We have some suggestions and at a minimum we've got some courses of action that you can follow to navigate through this maze.
00:26.177 --> 00:26.777
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
00:26.797 --> 00:28.398
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's get into it.
00:30.878 --> 00:36.040
[SPEAKER_00]: I am an experienced paramedic on a strong season team that takes pride in our work.
00:37.041 --> 00:40.002
[SPEAKER_00]: One neuro paramedic has developed a reputation for being lazy.
00:40.462 --> 00:46.604
[SPEAKER_00]: This honest, hostile to feedback and openly admitting he doesn't meet patient care standards.
00:47.725 --> 00:58.849
[SPEAKER_00]: Despite lacking the respect of nearly everyone on our shift, including several battalion chiefs, he was recently promoted to sergeant and is training to fill in as battalion chief.
00:59.749 --> 01:01.810
[SPEAKER_00]: largely due to his relationship with management.
01:02.410 --> 01:07.713
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you respect someone's leadership position when you don't respect or trust the person holding it?
01:10.575 --> 01:11.475
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thanks your service.
01:11.695 --> 01:14.397
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that it's tough work out there being a paramedic.
01:16.438 --> 01:18.259
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a scene in band of brothers.
01:19.117 --> 01:23.843
[SPEAKER_01]: where major dick winners, this is that this is when he's become a major to later in the show.
01:23.863 --> 01:35.058
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not a lieutenant anymore, subordinate to Captain Sobel and they see each other and Captain Sobel like it doesn't want to salute him, it doesn't want to give him that respect.
01:36.408 --> 01:41.952
[SPEAKER_01]: and Dickwinner's calls him out and says, we salute the rank not the man.
01:42.853 --> 01:49.258
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's very interesting because he's saying in the clear, in broad daylight, hey, I know you don't respect me.
01:49.638 --> 01:52.060
[SPEAKER_01]: That's okay, we salute the rank not the man.
01:52.220 --> 01:52.781
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what he's saying.
01:52.861 --> 01:55.102
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, okay, hey, don't have to respect me, it's all right.
01:55.683 --> 01:56.544
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is weird.
01:56.984 --> 02:00.166
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying I love that idea, right?
02:00.987 --> 02:01.667
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's what he's saying.
02:06.644 --> 02:09.666
[SPEAKER_01]: Well actually I do, it's a weird situation.
02:10.822 --> 02:12.623
[SPEAKER_01]: but his message is correct.
02:14.264 --> 02:15.164
[SPEAKER_01]: Now what would I have done?
02:15.184 --> 02:16.725
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd have been like, hey, whatever.
02:16.825 --> 02:17.346
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
02:17.366 --> 02:21.968
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you gotta let that guy, if I was major winners and I saw him, you know?
02:22.268 --> 02:24.630
[SPEAKER_01]: And saw him trying not to make eye contact and avoid me.
02:24.990 --> 02:26.931
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna call him out.
02:26.971 --> 02:29.953
[SPEAKER_01]: Just don't, you know, don't really care.
02:30.953 --> 02:35.916
[SPEAKER_01]: And that guy's already, I mean, he literally killed himself in real life, you know?
02:35.936 --> 02:37.957
[SPEAKER_01]: So the guy already has issues.
02:38.157 --> 02:39.418
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't feel like I need to,
02:40.459 --> 02:52.217
[SPEAKER_01]: like make him salute me but I understand you know but and there is a there's a component with dick winners of like hey this is the military and we've got people you if you're not gonna follow the protocols here.
02:52.783 --> 02:53.344
[SPEAKER_01]: That's problematic.
02:53.684 --> 03:02.212
[SPEAKER_01]: There would sometimes be an interesting dynamic in the military that I would see, which was, let's say you were, let's say you were a chief, right?
03:02.913 --> 03:15.625
[SPEAKER_01]: And as a chief, you kind of really flexed that authority that you had from being a chief, like, hey, I'm a chief, you better, hey, I'm the chief, I'm a chief, you know, I'm a chief, petty Oscar, I'm gonna eat seven like that kind of stuff.
03:16.793 --> 03:18.975
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if you're going to play that game, guess what game you all have to play?
03:19.855 --> 03:21.176
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this person's an officer.
03:22.217 --> 03:23.658
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you, well, I'm a lieutenant.
03:24.459 --> 03:24.959
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
03:25.039 --> 03:29.503
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you start playing the rank game, you got to, that's, you're locked in.
03:29.583 --> 03:31.184
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, live by the sword, die by the sword.
03:31.204 --> 03:37.890
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you want to play the rank game, I, I interacted with a guy that was very much like that very much.
03:39.030 --> 03:42.651
[SPEAKER_01]: very very bought into his own rank recently.
03:42.831 --> 03:43.831
[SPEAKER_01]: This was a while.
03:43.871 --> 03:44.651
[SPEAKER_01]: No, this is in the teams.
03:44.771 --> 03:44.951
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
03:45.031 --> 03:52.873
[SPEAKER_01]: I got those very bought into his rank and flexing his rank, but other people's ranks that were above him were kind of like they didn't matter.
03:53.953 --> 04:04.475
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of always be like, you know, you know, and this is funny too because I was this is when I was in Enson, which is the lowest ranking officer, which generally don't get a ton of respect because
04:05.115 --> 04:09.137
[SPEAKER_01]: in the regular situations, these are guys that have been in the Navy for three days.
04:10.118 --> 04:12.119
[SPEAKER_01]: Or may up to two years, but they're very new.
04:13.139 --> 04:16.721
[SPEAKER_01]: For me, I had been in for eight years at this point.
04:17.161 --> 04:21.043
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I wasn't quite like a boot NCA, a little bit different.
04:21.744 --> 04:27.547
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, in some situations, I was had been in the SEAL teams for longer than people that were
04:28.903 --> 04:33.607
[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty senior enlisted guys if they hadn't gone to if you hadn't gone to Buds right out of boot camp.
04:34.407 --> 04:54.023
[SPEAKER_01]: If you were in the fleet prior, I would ride better than the teams longer than you And there is a There is always a little bit of while I just been in the teams longer than you You know, I've been in longer than you so they're there for Anyways, getting back to this question this guy this individual is like at this guy these are working for you.
04:54.043 --> 04:55.584
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't really respect how do you deal with it?
04:56.447 --> 05:06.012
[SPEAKER_01]: And that idea of like we salute the rank, not the man, but you don't have to like the guy, but in order to be a part of the program, like okay, this guy's, he has that rank, he has that position, okay.
05:06.552 --> 05:11.495
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna treat him with respect as the protocol states.
05:12.215 --> 05:12.956
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm gonna do.
05:13.416 --> 05:17.318
[SPEAKER_01]: And listen, I worked, like I said, I worked for all kinds of people that I didn't respect.
05:17.578 --> 05:20.520
[SPEAKER_01]: In the military, I worked for people that didn't respect in the civilian sector.
05:21.440 --> 05:22.461
[SPEAKER_01]: They would have never known it.
05:24.519 --> 05:25.861
[SPEAKER_01]: And neither would anyone around us.
05:26.743 --> 05:27.243
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
05:27.724 --> 05:28.385
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what you do.
05:28.425 --> 05:31.470
[SPEAKER_01]: You just be professionally, you treat them with professionalism and that's it.
05:33.092 --> 05:35.516
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where you have to be a little bit.
05:35.876 --> 05:38.781
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to use a little bit more of your leadership skill.
05:40.043 --> 05:50.355
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is, if he is behaving in a way or telling you to do things that don't make sense and now you've got to present that to the troops, you know what I'm saying?
05:50.575 --> 05:56.862
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you get told the person that you don't really respect says, hey, I want you guys to, you know, wear clown shoes.
05:57.984 --> 06:00.708
[SPEAKER_01]: And you say, hey, boss, I'm not sure if Clintures to best know that's what we're going to do.
06:00.728 --> 06:03.232
[SPEAKER_01]: And you say, Clintures aren't really, they're not going to be effective.
06:03.252 --> 06:04.174
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be hard to move in.
06:04.474 --> 06:06.517
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but it's going to make us better in the long one.
06:06.557 --> 06:07.960
[SPEAKER_01]: We go back to regular issues as well.
06:08.160 --> 06:11.525
[SPEAKER_01]: I want everyone in Clintures to my student saying like you can, you can get into situations like that.
06:12.667 --> 06:35.544
[SPEAKER_01]: you don't go then go hey guys the boss is an idiot and he's making us wear clown shoes because then that's you know negative but you also don't go hey guys the boss has a great idea we're all gonna wear clown shoes and I totally agree with you don't do that either because then the guys go away you're an idiot so what you do you know this is after you push back after you present the case then you say hey guys here's what's going on
06:37.105 --> 06:44.269
[SPEAKER_01]: look, I'm not 100% sure what the effectiveness of the clown shoes is, but the boss really thinks it's going to be make us better once we remove them.
06:44.610 --> 06:47.311
[SPEAKER_01]: So as we're going to do, we're going to do our best when we put these clown shoes on.
06:47.732 --> 06:48.452
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to gear up.
06:48.532 --> 06:52.915
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to do the best that we can and then I'm going to be able to give them some good feedback on what it was like.
06:54.348 --> 06:55.689
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you do.
06:56.189 --> 06:59.791
[SPEAKER_01]: You say, when, hey, when we get done with this, we're going to do it to the best of our ability.
07:00.351 --> 07:02.732
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to increase my, you know, the boss is trusting me.
07:02.752 --> 07:05.914
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to give me a little more influence and hopefully I'll be the stairmen in the right direction on this.
07:05.974 --> 07:06.674
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what we do.
07:10.476 --> 07:18.880
[SPEAKER_01]: You're trying to build that relationship, you know, and it's interesting here because this guy says, this individuality doesn't respect.
07:18.980 --> 07:22.442
[SPEAKER_01]: It's training to fill in as the battalion chief, largely due to his relationship with management.
07:24.103 --> 07:34.451
[SPEAKER_01]: We could say, what a kiss ass, what a brown nose you're, or we could say we're getting out maneuvered, do you know what I'm saying?
07:35.072 --> 07:39.475
[SPEAKER_01]: We could say we're getting out maneuvered, oh, okay, no, no, Jock, who told me to run around and kiss people?
07:39.515 --> 07:43.038
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not telling you that, I'm not saying you'd be a brown noseer, no, not saying that.
07:43.815 --> 07:44.876
[SPEAKER_01]: do I say build relationships?
07:45.056 --> 07:45.657
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, I do.
07:46.658 --> 07:50.141
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, what relationship is stronger?
07:50.381 --> 07:59.390
[SPEAKER_01]: The relationship of someone that's just kissing ass like, hey, but yeah, it's brilliant, but they're not doing anything or the relationship with someone that's, trust those from respect and influence and care, that's working hard.
07:59.410 --> 08:03.834
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, you can win that relationship game even when you're not kissing ass.
08:03.914 --> 08:04.135
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
08:05.740 --> 08:10.702
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, are there a few just crazy narcissistic human beings that just love getting their ass kissed?
08:10.822 --> 08:11.522
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there are.
08:11.962 --> 08:15.283
[SPEAKER_01]: And they will protect their little harem of ass kissers.
08:15.523 --> 08:15.663
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
08:16.564 --> 08:18.104
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not normal.
08:18.504 --> 08:20.625
[SPEAKER_01]: And if it is, you got, you guess what you have to do.
08:21.105 --> 08:23.026
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to maneuver through that environment.
08:23.046 --> 08:24.366
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to figure out how to make it work.
08:24.947 --> 08:33.550
[SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, what you end up doing is you end up ostracizing yourself, now you're viewed through a negative light, and not only is that screw you, but that screws your team, too.
08:34.710 --> 08:46.264
[SPEAKER_01]: So, hey, that's the way the game is played, and am I saying, you know, oh, you should run around and kiss people, that says no, what I'm saying is you build relationships with people.
08:47.285 --> 08:53.252
[SPEAKER_01]: That way, instead of this knucklehead, getting to be the fill in for the battalion chief, it'll be you.
08:55.288 --> 08:57.228
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's what I'm thinking, man.
08:57.548 --> 08:58.089
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where I'm at.
08:58.229 --> 08:59.969
[SPEAKER_01]: On this one, it's one of those scenarios.
09:00.009 --> 09:03.470
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you respect someone's leadership position when you don't respect or trust the person holding it?
09:03.850 --> 09:06.310
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd be professional, you'd try and build that relationship.
09:06.630 --> 09:08.351
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the best possible outcome.
09:08.871 --> 09:09.331
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you gonna do?
09:09.531 --> 09:12.071
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know what you should do is confront him and tell him how you think.
09:13.552 --> 09:14.252
[SPEAKER_01]: How's that gonna work out?
09:14.452 --> 09:15.312
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not gonna work out well.
09:15.752 --> 09:19.053
[SPEAKER_01]: Think of what the alternative course of action are.
09:19.815 --> 09:22.117
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, sabotage him.
09:22.577 --> 09:23.598
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, now the whole team looks bad.
09:23.838 --> 09:26.220
[SPEAKER_01]: Under-minum, now the team is not performing well.
09:27.682 --> 09:28.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Call them out.
09:28.582 --> 09:31.265
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you have an anti-nistic relationship with the person that you work for.
09:31.305 --> 09:37.710
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's so many quote-unquote, like, aggressive options to stand your ground.
09:38.391 --> 09:38.911
[SPEAKER_01]: And guess what?
09:39.792 --> 09:42.514
[SPEAKER_01]: You end up losing each one of those.
09:43.435 --> 09:45.717
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you know, this is the same way you're walking down the street.
09:45.817 --> 09:49.719
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone, someone, you know, insults you, you know, what should you do?
09:49.939 --> 09:51.560
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, could you use a double leg?
09:51.800 --> 09:54.282
[SPEAKER_01]: You could just go one to combination to the face.
09:54.762 --> 09:57.324
[SPEAKER_01]: You could just, you know, spin them around real quick with that stuff.
09:57.584 --> 09:58.465
[SPEAKER_01]: You ever seen that stuff to events?
09:58.585 --> 10:02.868
[SPEAKER_01]: Move, we just grab one shoulder, you pull one and you push the other and it just turns around, you rear naked choke them.
10:02.888 --> 10:06.670
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, wait, on those options, which one do you think is the best one in this?
10:06.690 --> 10:09.032
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, actually I'm sorry, but none of them.
10:10.072 --> 10:12.834
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the best one is to just go, um, big norm and move on.
10:13.106 --> 10:18.627
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but what about the yeah, because where does those three end up?
10:18.787 --> 10:19.588
[SPEAKER_01]: You're getting sued.
10:20.288 --> 10:22.688
[SPEAKER_01]: You're on social media beating up some bum.
10:24.209 --> 10:26.249
[SPEAKER_01]: You're you go to jail by the way.
10:26.529 --> 10:30.090
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's all kinds of all kinds of not least things that can happen.
10:30.170 --> 10:30.850
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing here.
10:31.991 --> 10:35.371
[SPEAKER_01]: And taginistic relationships and taginistic relationships are not going to help you.
10:36.132 --> 10:37.332
[SPEAKER_01]: So built some good relationships.
10:38.395 --> 10:58.247
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, remember that's when you first said that I was like dang, that's the perfect way to put it because there's no side stepping that fact like there's nothing good comes from building an antagonistic relationship the whole plane the game thing where You know the boss will say whether it be upper management your boss whoever whatever, you know, they kind of look at
10:59.738 --> 11:14.828
[SPEAKER_00]: everybody be neat them and it's like okay like who has potential you know they have this like evaluation always running and you can have a guy who does good work but you could tell like he's kind of undermining you sometimes or like
11:15.148 --> 11:41.634
[SPEAKER_00]: you know like let's say you're in a group setting and they kind of like roll their eyes there's you know like that kind of stuff you're like okay versus the other guy who's like yeah I'm kind of on board for all your stuff even all the way down to the kid's ass guy who's like super extra on board with everything so those guys the upper management guy whatever the boss is kind of rooting for them you know like oh I hope this I really hope this guy does good work in fact I'm gonna help him so because if I want anyone promoted I want this guy because I'm rooting for him
11:45.415 --> 11:54.721
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I shouldn't be here all this other negative stuff this antagonistic climate, you know, this is a work environment kind of a thing So yeah, like I said like I can be doing good work the other guy, right?
11:55.141 --> 12:00.844
[SPEAKER_00]: But if he's kind of like had brings along this element of toxicity But that guy's not rooting for you at all in fact.
12:00.864 --> 12:09.730
[SPEAKER_00]: They're kind of hoping he show up late one day Yeah, it's kind of hoping you can give me excuse to write him up and maybe you know phase them out or whatever So it's gonna like, bro, you're totally screwing yourself.
12:09.770 --> 12:12.872
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and most important
12:13.612 --> 12:15.334
[SPEAKER_01]: you're hurting the team and you're hurting the mission.
12:16.074 --> 12:17.235
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the most important thing here.
12:17.776 --> 12:23.760
[SPEAKER_01]: You look, you may not talk, you won't get promoted, you're not going to get the opportunity for motion.
12:23.781 --> 12:26.563
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's secondary tertiary, doesn't matter.
12:26.923 --> 12:29.645
[SPEAKER_01]: What matters is, you're not in a good relationship with your boss.
12:30.766 --> 12:37.412
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocco Underground podcast.
12:37.452 --> 12:38.533
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to continue to listen,
12:40.380 --> 13:06.326
[SPEAKER_01]: go to jockelunderground.com and subscribe and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the jockel podcast which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control
13:09.067 --> 13:28.061
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us and to do that, we are building a website right now where we'll build the utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us.
13:28.441 --> 13:31.183
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you, it's jockelunderground.com.
13:31.503 --> 13:36.246
[SPEAKER_01]: It costs $8 and $18 a month and if you can't afford to support
13:38.005 --> 13:50.195
[SPEAKER_01]: We can still support you, just email assistance at jockelonagram.com and we'll get you taken care of until then we will see you mobilized underground.
00:00.131 --> 00:03.812
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the Jockel underground podcast number 230 sitting here with echo trails and me.
00:04.432 --> 00:14.114
[SPEAKER_01]: Jockel will link where you have got some questions from the front lines from you out there where the rubber meets the road in the trenches and we have some answers.
00:14.654 --> 00:24.877
[SPEAKER_01]: We have some suggestions and at a minimum we've got some courses of action that you can follow to navigate through this maze.
00:26.177 --> 00:26.777
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
00:26.797 --> 00:28.398
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's get into it.
00:30.878 --> 00:36.040
[SPEAKER_00]: I am an experienced paramedic on a strong season team that takes pride in our work.
00:37.041 --> 00:40.002
[SPEAKER_00]: One neuro paramedic has developed a reputation for being lazy.
00:40.462 --> 00:46.604
[SPEAKER_00]: This honest, hostile to feedback and openly admitting he doesn't meet patient care standards.
00:47.725 --> 00:58.849
[SPEAKER_00]: Despite lacking the respect of nearly everyone on our shift, including several battalion chiefs, he was recently promoted to sergeant and is training to fill in as battalion chief.
00:59.749 --> 01:01.810
[SPEAKER_00]: largely due to his relationship with management.
01:02.410 --> 01:07.713
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you respect someone's leadership position when you don't respect or trust the person holding it?
01:10.575 --> 01:11.475
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thanks your service.
01:11.695 --> 01:14.397
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that it's tough work out there being a paramedic.
01:16.438 --> 01:18.259
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a scene in band of brothers.
01:19.117 --> 01:23.843
[SPEAKER_01]: where major dick winners, this is that this is when he's become a major to later in the show.
01:23.863 --> 01:35.058
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not a lieutenant anymore, subordinate to Captain Sobel and they see each other and Captain Sobel like it doesn't want to salute him, it doesn't want to give him that respect.
01:36.408 --> 01:41.952
[SPEAKER_01]: and Dickwinner's calls him out and says, we salute the rank not the man.
01:42.853 --> 01:49.258
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's very interesting because he's saying in the clear, in broad daylight, hey, I know you don't respect me.
01:49.638 --> 01:52.060
[SPEAKER_01]: That's okay, we salute the rank not the man.
01:52.220 --> 01:52.781
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what he's saying.
01:52.861 --> 01:55.102
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, okay, hey, don't have to respect me, it's all right.
01:55.683 --> 01:56.544
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is weird.
01:56.984 --> 02:00.166
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying I love that idea, right?
02:00.987 --> 02:01.667
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's what he's saying.
02:06.644 --> 02:09.666
[SPEAKER_01]: Well actually I do, it's a weird situation.
02:10.822 --> 02:12.623
[SPEAKER_01]: but his message is correct.
02:14.264 --> 02:15.164
[SPEAKER_01]: Now what would I have done?
02:15.184 --> 02:16.725
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd have been like, hey, whatever.
02:16.825 --> 02:17.346
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
02:17.366 --> 02:21.968
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you gotta let that guy, if I was major winners and I saw him, you know?
02:22.268 --> 02:24.630
[SPEAKER_01]: And saw him trying not to make eye contact and avoid me.
02:24.990 --> 02:26.931
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna call him out.
02:26.971 --> 02:29.953
[SPEAKER_01]: Just don't, you know, don't really care.
02:30.953 --> 02:35.916
[SPEAKER_01]: And that guy's already, I mean, he literally killed himself in real life, you know?
02:35.936 --> 02:37.957
[SPEAKER_01]: So the guy already has issues.
02:38.157 --> 02:39.418
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't feel like I need to,
02:40.459 --> 02:52.217
[SPEAKER_01]: like make him salute me but I understand you know but and there is a there's a component with dick winners of like hey this is the military and we've got people you if you're not gonna follow the protocols here.
02:52.783 --> 02:53.344
[SPEAKER_01]: That's problematic.
02:53.684 --> 03:02.212
[SPEAKER_01]: There would sometimes be an interesting dynamic in the military that I would see, which was, let's say you were, let's say you were a chief, right?
03:02.913 --> 03:15.625
[SPEAKER_01]: And as a chief, you kind of really flexed that authority that you had from being a chief, like, hey, I'm a chief, you better, hey, I'm the chief, I'm a chief, you know, I'm a chief, petty Oscar, I'm gonna eat seven like that kind of stuff.
03:16.793 --> 03:18.975
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if you're going to play that game, guess what game you all have to play?
03:19.855 --> 03:21.176
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this person's an officer.
03:22.217 --> 03:23.658
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you, well, I'm a lieutenant.
03:24.459 --> 03:24.959
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
03:25.039 --> 03:29.503
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you start playing the rank game, you got to, that's, you're locked in.
03:29.583 --> 03:31.184
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, live by the sword, die by the sword.
03:31.204 --> 03:37.890
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you want to play the rank game, I, I interacted with a guy that was very much like that very much.
03:39.030 --> 03:42.651
[SPEAKER_01]: very very bought into his own rank recently.
03:42.831 --> 03:43.831
[SPEAKER_01]: This was a while.
03:43.871 --> 03:44.651
[SPEAKER_01]: No, this is in the teams.
03:44.771 --> 03:44.951
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
03:45.031 --> 03:52.873
[SPEAKER_01]: I got those very bought into his rank and flexing his rank, but other people's ranks that were above him were kind of like they didn't matter.
03:53.953 --> 04:04.475
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of always be like, you know, you know, and this is funny too because I was this is when I was in Enson, which is the lowest ranking officer, which generally don't get a ton of respect because
04:05.115 --> 04:09.137
[SPEAKER_01]: in the regular situations, these are guys that have been in the Navy for three days.
04:10.118 --> 04:12.119
[SPEAKER_01]: Or may up to two years, but they're very new.
04:13.139 --> 04:16.721
[SPEAKER_01]: For me, I had been in for eight years at this point.
04:17.161 --> 04:21.043
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I wasn't quite like a boot NCA, a little bit different.
04:21.744 --> 04:27.547
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, in some situations, I was had been in the SEAL teams for longer than people that were
04:28.903 --> 04:33.607
[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty senior enlisted guys if they hadn't gone to if you hadn't gone to Buds right out of boot camp.
04:34.407 --> 04:54.023
[SPEAKER_01]: If you were in the fleet prior, I would ride better than the teams longer than you And there is a There is always a little bit of while I just been in the teams longer than you You know, I've been in longer than you so they're there for Anyways, getting back to this question this guy this individual is like at this guy these are working for you.
04:54.043 --> 04:55.584
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't really respect how do you deal with it?
04:56.447 --> 05:06.012
[SPEAKER_01]: And that idea of like we salute the rank, not the man, but you don't have to like the guy, but in order to be a part of the program, like okay, this guy's, he has that rank, he has that position, okay.
05:06.552 --> 05:11.495
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna treat him with respect as the protocol states.
05:12.215 --> 05:12.956
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm gonna do.
05:13.416 --> 05:17.318
[SPEAKER_01]: And listen, I worked, like I said, I worked for all kinds of people that I didn't respect.
05:17.578 --> 05:20.520
[SPEAKER_01]: In the military, I worked for people that didn't respect in the civilian sector.
05:21.440 --> 05:22.461
[SPEAKER_01]: They would have never known it.
05:24.519 --> 05:25.861
[SPEAKER_01]: And neither would anyone around us.
05:26.743 --> 05:27.243
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
05:27.724 --> 05:28.385
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what you do.
05:28.425 --> 05:31.470
[SPEAKER_01]: You just be professionally, you treat them with professionalism and that's it.
05:33.092 --> 05:35.516
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where you have to be a little bit.
05:35.876 --> 05:38.781
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to use a little bit more of your leadership skill.
05:40.043 --> 05:50.355
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is, if he is behaving in a way or telling you to do things that don't make sense and now you've got to present that to the troops, you know what I'm saying?
05:50.575 --> 05:56.862
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you get told the person that you don't really respect says, hey, I want you guys to, you know, wear clown shoes.
05:57.984 --> 06:00.708
[SPEAKER_01]: And you say, hey, boss, I'm not sure if Clintures to best know that's what we're going to do.
06:00.728 --> 06:03.232
[SPEAKER_01]: And you say, Clintures aren't really, they're not going to be effective.
06:03.252 --> 06:04.174
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be hard to move in.
06:04.474 --> 06:06.517
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but it's going to make us better in the long one.
06:06.557 --> 06:07.960
[SPEAKER_01]: We go back to regular issues as well.
06:08.160 --> 06:11.525
[SPEAKER_01]: I want everyone in Clintures to my student saying like you can, you can get into situations like that.
06:12.667 --> 06:35.544
[SPEAKER_01]: you don't go then go hey guys the boss is an idiot and he's making us wear clown shoes because then that's you know negative but you also don't go hey guys the boss has a great idea we're all gonna wear clown shoes and I totally agree with you don't do that either because then the guys go away you're an idiot so what you do you know this is after you push back after you present the case then you say hey guys here's what's going on
06:37.105 --> 06:44.269
[SPEAKER_01]: look, I'm not 100% sure what the effectiveness of the clown shoes is, but the boss really thinks it's going to be make us better once we remove them.
06:44.610 --> 06:47.311
[SPEAKER_01]: So as we're going to do, we're going to do our best when we put these clown shoes on.
06:47.732 --> 06:48.452
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to gear up.
06:48.532 --> 06:52.915
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to do the best that we can and then I'm going to be able to give them some good feedback on what it was like.
06:54.348 --> 06:55.689
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you do.
06:56.189 --> 06:59.791
[SPEAKER_01]: You say, when, hey, when we get done with this, we're going to do it to the best of our ability.
07:00.351 --> 07:02.732
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to increase my, you know, the boss is trusting me.
07:02.752 --> 07:05.914
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to give me a little more influence and hopefully I'll be the stairmen in the right direction on this.
07:05.974 --> 07:06.674
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what we do.
07:10.476 --> 07:18.880
[SPEAKER_01]: You're trying to build that relationship, you know, and it's interesting here because this guy says, this individuality doesn't respect.
07:18.980 --> 07:22.442
[SPEAKER_01]: It's training to fill in as the battalion chief, largely due to his relationship with management.
07:24.103 --> 07:34.451
[SPEAKER_01]: We could say, what a kiss ass, what a brown nose you're, or we could say we're getting out maneuvered, do you know what I'm saying?
07:35.072 --> 07:39.475
[SPEAKER_01]: We could say we're getting out maneuvered, oh, okay, no, no, Jock, who told me to run around and kiss people?
07:39.515 --> 07:43.038
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not telling you that, I'm not saying you'd be a brown noseer, no, not saying that.
07:43.815 --> 07:44.876
[SPEAKER_01]: do I say build relationships?
07:45.056 --> 07:45.657
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, I do.
07:46.658 --> 07:50.141
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, what relationship is stronger?
07:50.381 --> 07:59.390
[SPEAKER_01]: The relationship of someone that's just kissing ass like, hey, but yeah, it's brilliant, but they're not doing anything or the relationship with someone that's, trust those from respect and influence and care, that's working hard.
07:59.410 --> 08:03.834
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, you can win that relationship game even when you're not kissing ass.
08:03.914 --> 08:04.135
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
08:05.740 --> 08:10.702
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, are there a few just crazy narcissistic human beings that just love getting their ass kissed?
08:10.822 --> 08:11.522
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there are.
08:11.962 --> 08:15.283
[SPEAKER_01]: And they will protect their little harem of ass kissers.
08:15.523 --> 08:15.663
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
08:16.564 --> 08:18.104
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not normal.
08:18.504 --> 08:20.625
[SPEAKER_01]: And if it is, you got, you guess what you have to do.
08:21.105 --> 08:23.026
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to maneuver through that environment.
08:23.046 --> 08:24.366
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to figure out how to make it work.
08:24.947 --> 08:33.550
[SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, what you end up doing is you end up ostracizing yourself, now you're viewed through a negative light, and not only is that screw you, but that screws your team, too.
08:34.710 --> 08:46.264
[SPEAKER_01]: So, hey, that's the way the game is played, and am I saying, you know, oh, you should run around and kiss people, that says no, what I'm saying is you build relationships with people.
08:47.285 --> 08:53.252
[SPEAKER_01]: That way, instead of this knucklehead, getting to be the fill in for the battalion chief, it'll be you.
08:55.288 --> 08:57.228
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's what I'm thinking, man.
08:57.548 --> 08:58.089
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where I'm at.
08:58.229 --> 08:59.969
[SPEAKER_01]: On this one, it's one of those scenarios.
09:00.009 --> 09:03.470
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you respect someone's leadership position when you don't respect or trust the person holding it?
09:03.850 --> 09:06.310
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd be professional, you'd try and build that relationship.
09:06.630 --> 09:08.351
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the best possible outcome.
09:08.871 --> 09:09.331
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you gonna do?
09:09.531 --> 09:12.071
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know what you should do is confront him and tell him how you think.
09:13.552 --> 09:14.252
[SPEAKER_01]: How's that gonna work out?
09:14.452 --> 09:15.312
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not gonna work out well.
09:15.752 --> 09:19.053
[SPEAKER_01]: Think of what the alternative course of action are.
09:19.815 --> 09:22.117
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, sabotage him.
09:22.577 --> 09:23.598
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, now the whole team looks bad.
09:23.838 --> 09:26.220
[SPEAKER_01]: Under-minum, now the team is not performing well.
09:27.682 --> 09:28.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Call them out.
09:28.582 --> 09:31.265
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you have an anti-nistic relationship with the person that you work for.
09:31.305 --> 09:37.710
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's so many quote-unquote, like, aggressive options to stand your ground.
09:38.391 --> 09:38.911
[SPEAKER_01]: And guess what?
09:39.792 --> 09:42.514
[SPEAKER_01]: You end up losing each one of those.
09:43.435 --> 09:45.717
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you know, this is the same way you're walking down the street.
09:45.817 --> 09:49.719
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone, someone, you know, insults you, you know, what should you do?
09:49.939 --> 09:51.560
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, could you use a double leg?
09:51.800 --> 09:54.282
[SPEAKER_01]: You could just go one to combination to the face.
09:54.762 --> 09:57.324
[SPEAKER_01]: You could just, you know, spin them around real quick with that stuff.
09:57.584 --> 09:58.465
[SPEAKER_01]: You ever seen that stuff to events?
09:58.585 --> 10:02.868
[SPEAKER_01]: Move, we just grab one shoulder, you pull one and you push the other and it just turns around, you rear naked choke them.
10:02.888 --> 10:06.670
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, wait, on those options, which one do you think is the best one in this?
10:06.690 --> 10:09.032
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, actually I'm sorry, but none of them.
10:10.072 --> 10:12.834
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the best one is to just go, um, big norm and move on.
10:13.106 --> 10:18.627
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but what about the yeah, because where does those three end up?
10:18.787 --> 10:19.588
[SPEAKER_01]: You're getting sued.
10:20.288 --> 10:22.688
[SPEAKER_01]: You're on social media beating up some bum.
10:24.209 --> 10:26.249
[SPEAKER_01]: You're you go to jail by the way.
10:26.529 --> 10:30.090
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's all kinds of all kinds of not least things that can happen.
10:30.170 --> 10:30.850
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing here.
10:31.991 --> 10:35.371
[SPEAKER_01]: And taginistic relationships and taginistic relationships are not going to help you.
10:36.132 --> 10:37.332
[SPEAKER_01]: So built some good relationships.
10:38.395 --> 10:58.247
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, remember that's when you first said that I was like dang, that's the perfect way to put it because there's no side stepping that fact like there's nothing good comes from building an antagonistic relationship the whole plane the game thing where You know the boss will say whether it be upper management your boss whoever whatever, you know, they kind of look at
10:59.738 --> 11:14.828
[SPEAKER_00]: everybody be neat them and it's like okay like who has potential you know they have this like evaluation always running and you can have a guy who does good work but you could tell like he's kind of undermining you sometimes or like
11:15.148 --> 11:41.634
[SPEAKER_00]: you know like let's say you're in a group setting and they kind of like roll their eyes there's you know like that kind of stuff you're like okay versus the other guy who's like yeah I'm kind of on board for all your stuff even all the way down to the kid's ass guy who's like super extra on board with everything so those guys the upper management guy whatever the boss is kind of rooting for them you know like oh I hope this I really hope this guy does good work in fact I'm gonna help him so because if I want anyone promoted I want this guy because I'm rooting for him
11:45.415 --> 11:54.721
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I shouldn't be here all this other negative stuff this antagonistic climate, you know, this is a work environment kind of a thing So yeah, like I said like I can be doing good work the other guy, right?
11:55.141 --> 12:00.844
[SPEAKER_00]: But if he's kind of like had brings along this element of toxicity But that guy's not rooting for you at all in fact.
12:00.864 --> 12:09.730
[SPEAKER_00]: They're kind of hoping he show up late one day Yeah, it's kind of hoping you can give me excuse to write him up and maybe you know phase them out or whatever So it's gonna like, bro, you're totally screwing yourself.
12:09.770 --> 12:12.872
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and most important
12:13.612 --> 12:15.334
[SPEAKER_01]: you're hurting the team and you're hurting the mission.
12:16.074 --> 12:17.235
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the most important thing here.
12:17.776 --> 12:23.760
[SPEAKER_01]: You look, you may not talk, you won't get promoted, you're not going to get the opportunity for motion.
12:23.781 --> 12:26.563
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's secondary tertiary, doesn't matter.
12:26.923 --> 12:29.645
[SPEAKER_01]: What matters is, you're not in a good relationship with your boss.
12:30.766 --> 12:37.412
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocco Underground podcast.
12:37.452 --> 12:38.533
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to continue to listen,
12:40.380 --> 13:06.326
[SPEAKER_01]: go to jockelunderground.com and subscribe and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the jockel podcast which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control
13:09.067 --> 13:28.061
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us and to do that, we are building a website right now where we'll build the utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us.
13:28.441 --> 13:31.183
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you, it's jockelunderground.com.
13:31.503 --> 13:36.246
[SPEAKER_01]: It costs $8 and $18 a month and if you can't afford to support
13:38.005 --> 13:50.195
[SPEAKER_01]: We can still support you, just email assistance at jockelonagram.com and we'll get you taken care of until then we will see you mobilized underground.