565: Faith, Courage, and Standing for What Is Right. With Jim Caviezel

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: This is Jocopontcast number 565, with echo Charles and me, Jocopo will like good evening echo, good evening. [SPEAKER_00]: We are a people in danger of succumbing to our excesses. [SPEAKER_00]: Set yourself apart from this corruption, this corrupt generation. [SPEAKER_00]: Be saints. [SPEAKER_00]: Freedom exists not to do what you like. [SPEAKER_00]: but to do what you ought. [SPEAKER_00]: And that right there is a quote from Jim Kavizo, who is a son, a husband, a father, a man of principle, and a man of faith, and an actor who has starred in such films as the thin red line, the count of Monte Cristo, the passion of the Christ, [SPEAKER_00]: The sound of freedom and he has an upcoming film called Ghost Soldier, and he is with us here tonight to share some of his experiences and lessons learned along the way.

0:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So, Jim? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes sir. [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for joining us. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: Really cool to be able to sit down with you. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: The thin red line watching that in the movie theaters way back in the day and then obviously the passion of the Christ, the sound of freedom looking forward to seeing ghost soldier I haven't seen it yet and then echo Charles is he is seen deja vu 100 times. [SPEAKER_01]: approximately. [SPEAKER_00]: So you've got you got you got some fans here. [SPEAKER_00]: I know we were a little bit tight on time today, but a little bit of background from you growing up. [SPEAKER_00]: So what was what was the situation? [SPEAKER_00]: What was your data? [SPEAKER_00]: Cairopractors, all right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And then what was your mom doing? [SPEAKER_00]: How swif? [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

1:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And raised five children. [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's legit. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's a job and it's even right for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: And what you had a younger [SPEAKER_00]: and then some sisters all the way. [SPEAKER_02]: Young a brother and a younger sister, two younger sisters, and older sister. [SPEAKER_02]: And then what were you into when you were grown up? [SPEAKER_02]: Basketball, every day, every day, all the time. [SPEAKER_02]: And how good were you? [SPEAKER_02]: Very good, professionally, no, but professionally shooter. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so I was at, you know, shooting is when you're a kid, you're pushing the ball to the rim and eventually becomes something like this.

2:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And then when you have to break it all down and eventually learn how to shoot here in the difference between this and this, that's a streak shooter, that's a pure shooter. [SPEAKER_02]: a streak shooter doesn't have backspin. [SPEAKER_02]: If you shoot a team feed out for every reaction, there's an equal and opposite reaction. [SPEAKER_02]: So when the ball hits, the rim, it doesn't bounce 18 feet in another direction. [SPEAKER_02]: About 20% you'll increase your, uh, your, [SPEAKER_02]: the your shot from going in if you can, you know, once the ball hangs out on that rim can either be tipped in or hangs out and it goes in. [SPEAKER_02]: So about 20% increase if you're percentage you're a little bit more than that.

3:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that was kind of my, uh, [SPEAKER_02]: discipline and then many, many coaches of four or five basketball camps every summer. [SPEAKER_02]: George Ravling, Washington State Basketball Camp. [SPEAKER_02]: My dad played for John Wooden on what's a John Wooden basketball camp. [SPEAKER_02]: And then a lot of NBA players in 1979, the Seattle Super Sonics won the NBA World Championship, and there's not only a championship in Seattle until the last two Super Bowls that we've had with Seattle, [SPEAKER_02]: the thing that really changed my life and then I went to a five-star basketball camp in Robert Morris College and my junior year and that's when I started like hey he might be pretty you know good and then I transferred into Bishop O'Day high school in Seattle and you know played against some guys that eventually played in the NBA.

4:10 [SPEAKER_02]: and then play against some great NBA players and it realizes there's a difference. [SPEAKER_02]: But I knew how to hide it. [SPEAKER_02]: I knew that if I move my game a certain way, for example, coming off screens and stuff and be able to get my shot off. [SPEAKER_02]: much quicker that I would have, you know, had advantage, so I really became a three-point specialist. [SPEAKER_02]: It was a point guard. [SPEAKER_02]: My senior year we were a nationally ranked high school team in the state. [SPEAKER_02]: We were really good in the summer we were a second in the state, and then [SPEAKER_02]: And then I went to Junior College, I had a shot, you know, I could play a division too.

4:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And then injured my first year, I had an ankle surgery, and then the following year, my partially tore my ACL. [SPEAKER_02]: And then I had a couple, you know, a preferred walk-ons. [SPEAKER_02]: So I was a preferred walk-on for the Huskies, Washington. [SPEAKER_02]: And really things that really take off, but acting was starting to really kick him when I was injured, I took an acting class. [SPEAKER_00]: So did you have any acting in high school at all? [SPEAKER_00]: Were you interested in it? [SPEAKER_00]: Did you watch a movie one time and say that looks cool? [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it was always cool, but I just didn't conceive that that was something that I could do, you know?

5:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I was in eighth grade, I remember they had this play, Christmas play, nobody wanted to do this one particular role, they had too many lines in it, and I did want to do it. [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I ended up doing it, and there was a part in there on the Lord as my shepherd. [SPEAKER_02]: one of the songs and something happened in the play, and now it came at something that hit the audience and people started crying, and then the teacher said you should be at priest, you know, the nuns were saying you should be an actor, whatever, and then I didn't want to be an [SPEAKER_00]: So when did the basketball dream officially die?

6:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, officially when I stopped 1990, when Linance was the basketball coach at Washington, or 89, I stopped playing and started getting, like, I was auditioning for stuff that, like, have you acted before? [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, no. [SPEAKER_02]: And so there was a gift there. [SPEAKER_02]: But, um, [SPEAKER_02]: One thing that, and I got to meet Michael Jordan, talked about it. [SPEAKER_02]: Michael Jordan had a natural gift at the highest level, but he also had something as quite remarkable, which is he had a walk-on gift.

7:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Walk-on gift, somebody that is so hungry, and he, it was just unrelenting, and when he was sick, he had the flu in the finals, he, he, [SPEAKER_02]: John Stockton had that as well. [SPEAKER_02]: John was Although he wouldn't remember me, but you know, I got to cover him a few times on the Gonzaga basketball court and you know, but that those guys Gary Peyton and other one those guys are like, you know, just this is what they were born to do on acting was what I was [SPEAKER_02]: What I was born to do, but the athleticism still was an important part and when I did the really Scott G.I.J.

8:04 [SPEAKER_02]: movie, toughness, you know, mentally tough is an important piece of it and your community really helped me when I was doing the passion. [SPEAKER_02]: Because I was, you know, had to deal with five and a half months of hypothermia, and the first time I ever encountered that was when Hashim Shalom, the seal that was working, kind of was closer to me. [SPEAKER_02]: and under instructor Scott Alveston, under Harry Humphrey's during the surf torture was really tough. [SPEAKER_02]: The water was killer. [SPEAKER_02]: And because of that, I became a master's swimmer.

8:49 [SPEAKER_02]: They started, you know, I used to have this, [SPEAKER_02]: 86 year old man low kicked my ass every day. [SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't do the speedos thing for a long time You guys had them small short brown shorts. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we had the UD T shorts, which there was guys There's something instructors were wear speedos speedos was a not particularly everyone [SPEAKER_02]: That was tough, but I went from late eight and then over to Lane two and we got better and better and more proficient, but that your community helped me a lot over the years and all of the films I've done, basically it's like this basketball I can tell right away.

9:35 [SPEAKER_02]: if I'm watching an actor and he's trying to play a basketball player I can tell you the moment picks up all up I can tell you the moment he presents himself to the foul line I know whether he plays or not and it drives me nuts and so like go soldier you know just that's why you know talking to guys like life and our friend and he he really helped me out a lot on [SPEAKER_02]: Chris helped me tremendously in several films, just going up to a door, you know, where the door jam is, where, you know, or things like that, and I videotape it and yeah, you don't want to do it that way, man.

10:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is weird how much it throws you out of a movie. [SPEAKER_00]: If you have some kind of technical, you know, expertise, you know, like I'm a jiu-jitsu guy, so when you see something happening and you're like, well, that's just really not that realistic. [SPEAKER_00]: Or I guess you know shooting obviously that you know any kind of tactics you go all that doesn't make much sense I don't know if there's anything else I'm Serfing you know I I've been served for my whole life, so when I if there's something dumb and surfing you're kind of like that that's dumb [SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of, I mean, 97% of things that I watch, I'm not smart enough to, you know, critique how they're doing their crochet or critique how they're doing their, you know, uh, I played a little bit of hockey, but you know, this random stuff you can't really critique, um, when you, so when you decided to actually go, go all in, to acting, how do you do that?

11:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you just move to LA and start auditioning? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and what'd you tell your parents? [SPEAKER_00]: Because they must have been. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't imagine a lot of support from parents telling your kid to go, you know, play the lottery. [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. [SPEAKER_02]: I would say that [SPEAKER_02]: My parents kind of locked me in my room, and I would have found a way out, and Nothing was gonna stop me from doing it. [SPEAKER_02]: But I had a One of those experiences This summer we went to I took my family to all the places where same Francis of the CC was. [SPEAKER_02]: He was a warrior before he was who he was and he had a huge calling [SPEAKER_02]: from God and like King David did you know and so I had that happened to me in a movie theater and in the summer of 1990 I was watching a movie ghost movie ended and I had my basketball on the left side of me this presence landed on the ground a thousand yards away [SPEAKER_02]: And then the presence came into the theater.

12:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I felt the most love and it got closer and closer. [SPEAKER_02]: And then it enveloped me and I felt like I had this, like I was the only child of this God. [SPEAKER_02]: The most love I ever felt and I went from love to peace and then the voice said and it was an audible sound in my heart never It nothing like this ever happened and And it was I guess it's called a location instead of an apparition was a location [SPEAKER_02]: And the voice said, I'd like you to be an actor, exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: It did not say, I would like you to be. [SPEAKER_02]: It said, I'd like you to be an actor. [SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't.

13:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I would never have done it. [SPEAKER_02]: That hadn't happened. [SPEAKER_02]: And so when you go and look at what eventually would happen, which would be. [SPEAKER_02]: that I was 33 years old. [SPEAKER_02]: My initials were J.C. and I was asked to play Jesus in this movie. [SPEAKER_02]: And the only way I would have done it is if it had to be what was in the Bible. [SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't want to play transgender, Jesus, or something outrageous. [SPEAKER_02]: I had to be the right stakes that it was the most controversial thing that ever was. [SPEAKER_02]: So when they say, it's the controversial passion of the Christ, you know, I love it because I know we got it right.

14:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And [SPEAKER_02]: And it woke up a lot of people, it changed a lot of lives, but I do believe that the hand of God brought me into your community on that film really, because just the mentality is just, I think you're born that way. [SPEAKER_02]: You have a gift, like a mark on you from heaven, [SPEAKER_02]: And it also goes with it as persecution, but you continue to strive and pray in your own way deeply to what that [SPEAKER_02]: that purpose is what is your purpose and it literally becomes a purpose driven life.

14:53 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's not like I didn't, I know how to be popular. [SPEAKER_02]: I know if I want to fit into a high school or I went to three different high schools. [SPEAKER_02]: I remember I dated this girl and she used to date the most popular guy in the school and she broke up with him. [SPEAKER_02]: He was a jerk. [SPEAKER_02]: So I started dating her and I became unpopular overnight. [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't do anything wrong and I didn't stop dating her because I didn't do anything wrong. [SPEAKER_02]: But you can be not popular in the group anymore because of what the choice you made. [SPEAKER_02]: So for example, I've made the choice to do the passion but I became unpopular.

15:38 [SPEAKER_02]: When I did the thin red line, I was popular. [SPEAKER_02]: I did the right thing, but the political movement environment said, no, if you do this movie, we will take you away from, you know, popularity and the magazines and the GQs and the vanity fairs, and I said, no, this is right. [SPEAKER_02]: It's the right thing. [SPEAKER_02]: I cut that from your community, really. [SPEAKER_00]: When you were getting ready for the thin red line, or even really, I guess, GI Jane, you know, a lot of times you see guys going through some kind of boot camp scenario to get people ready for the filming. [SPEAKER_00]: Did you do anything like that for the thin red line to getting ready for the tactical maneuvers and being suffered out in the jungle and all that stuff?

16:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: I stayed in touch with your community and those guys would give me advice, you know, like, for example, we were talking about, you know, crossing from one side of the jungle over the other and this guy was amazed at what I, the knowledge I had and he said, where you [SPEAKER_02]: private Ryan as well. [SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, no, no, no, no, no. [SPEAKER_02]: Listen, Matt, who? [SPEAKER_02]: He says that that hasn't happened yet.

17:07 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of guys have to die before we can do that. [SPEAKER_02]: And in fact, what we're doing right now, guys died and they figured it out. [SPEAKER_02]: So you're way too far in the future. [SPEAKER_02]: Some of [SPEAKER_02]: ran quite a bit, and I, you know, Terry Malik, the director asked me, he says, look, we're going to do a lot of hills, not really difficult shots and stuff. [SPEAKER_02]: It would be great if you could really handle the hills, so I just ran up hills all the time, ran up. [SPEAKER_02]: He's going out [SPEAKER_02]: Manhattan Beach.

17:49 [SPEAKER_02]: There was a San Dune Hill, a loyal Amerimout University basketball team that played under West Head. [SPEAKER_02]: Poest Head used to be the Lakers coach, but anyway, they had to hang gathers in both Kimball. [SPEAKER_02]: And this was after Bo had died, but this one guy was up at the top and he said, I'll give you a $100 bill if you can run up this hill in one minute and I just took off running about halfway through. [SPEAKER_02]: I was just dead running in the sand. [SPEAKER_02]: It's just like sucks everything out of you [SPEAKER_00]: Now, from what I understand in the third red line, you know, you had like these really big actors in it, Bill Pullman, Mickey Vork was in it, and they got like cut completely out of the movie.

18:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently, the first cut was five hours long, and I guess that's the way Terrence Malik films. [SPEAKER_00]: He just films like hundreds and hundreds of hours of material, and then kind of creates the movie in the editing process. [SPEAKER_00]: And so it seems like you may not have known what a prominent role you played in the movie, while you were actually acting in the movie. [SPEAKER_00]: Is that an accurate assessment? [SPEAKER_00]: That's accurate. [SPEAKER_00]: Two and a half million feet of film. [SPEAKER_02]: I remember John Tol, who shot a brave heart. [SPEAKER_02]: He goes, well, two and a half million feet. [SPEAKER_02]: That's a record. [SPEAKER_02]: That was on Guadalcanel.

19:20 [SPEAKER_02]: one, you didn't know, but I do this. [SPEAKER_02]: If I just everything that I did that I was great in, you know, and that's a, and I've said this before, that the difference between me and other actors that are known, [SPEAKER_02]: they think they gave themselves the gift. [SPEAKER_02]: God gave me my gift. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a carrier and a bearer of that gift. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just a dad, father, and I happen to, you know, be what I'm doing. [SPEAKER_02]: But [SPEAKER_02]: Every film is, you know, it is a going to be, I'm going to be called out for what I choose to do and if I'm any good at it and it'd be the last one that I ever do.

20:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I enjoy it, it's a privilege, and so, you know, you're only as good as your last thing. [SPEAKER_02]: So when I went and did the movie, it was like, [SPEAKER_02]: Man, I'm around some of the best actors in the world. [SPEAKER_02]: I get to go head to head with them. [SPEAKER_02]: And every day I get on the, if I wasn't filming, I was running. [SPEAKER_02]: I was training, and I was in the water swimming. [SPEAKER_02]: And I took that from me when we did G.I. [SPEAKER_02]: Jane, and then I would go from there and get on the basketball court and dribble. [SPEAKER_02]: And then they had these games every night, you know, they will come out and play, but none of them can stay with me.

20:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's fun. [SPEAKER_00]: So when that movie comes, when you finally see the screening of the movie, if you realize, you're the star of the movie. [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know, well, here's what happened. [SPEAKER_02]: The first interview I ever gave, I walked into a room and they told me, Jim, your significant, you should see, I said, no, I want to see it with my family. [SPEAKER_02]: So I think maybe I'll never get another shot at this, but it was the Beverly Wilshire hotel, big round table. [SPEAKER_02]: And there must have been 30, 40 big round tables in New York Times was at my, you say, three o'clock over here on my right.

21:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And the first question was, um, you play like a Jesus character in this movie. [SPEAKER_02]: And they said, you, you know, and I said, well, I haven't seen it yet. [SPEAKER_02]: So what do you mean you haven't seen it? [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, well, I wanted to wait for, [SPEAKER_02]: my family see it and everything and uh uh uh you know and they said well you were like a Christlike figure in this movie and I said yeah I guess you're right and the person that my publicist Pat Kingsley she uh PMK she said you know how she asked you that question [SPEAKER_02]: That was a loaded question, you know, you could say, I could, I can see how you can, you might say that, but this is what I think it is, so you direct that in the interview and I don't know anything about this stuff and so Mel Gibson happened to read that article Christ like figure and that began the conversation.

22:57 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, money and fame, people recognize you. [SPEAKER_02]: I think they paid me $100,000 in do that movie. [SPEAKER_02]: I cut a gun at the bank and got a loan for 250,000. [SPEAKER_02]: It would have been the best investment in my self-aver. [SPEAKER_02]: So, I lived in a one bedroom apartment with my wife and we in our both cars paid for We paid a thousand dollars a month would been bedroom apartment and I like just this keep stocking it away I got done with that movie angley hired me on a part [SPEAKER_02]: got a, you know, I think that was like $60,000, so, you know, half of that and give to the IRS and your agent's managers and he's stuck to another $30,000 away and I just kept stuck in it away.

23:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Getting up in the morning, going swimming. [SPEAKER_02]: still I kept the habit of swimming with masters that I got into ocean swimming I was already into it with you from your community and and I just loved that world you know getting up early in the morning and training and then the next thing what happened was frequency came. [SPEAKER_02]: And they were going to fire me on that movie, two first few weeks, and luckily I had this woman, Penny Allen, who worked with Al Pacino, he was very, very close, and Penny and Charlie Charlie was a teacher.

24:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I had an actual teacher, John Kirby, but Penny Allen was the one that worked with me. [SPEAKER_02]: towards the latter part of the thin red line and she said, look, this owl went through this on the Godfather. [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to take a scene. [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be very difficult seeing they're going to move that in the front. [SPEAKER_02]: And again, I go back to, you know, [SPEAKER_02]: What your community the easiest day was yesterday. [SPEAKER_02]: So expect that this is I was ready for a fight and I had it all laid out They did exactly what was gonna happen. [SPEAKER_02]: They moved to really difficult scene. [SPEAKER_02]: I got a dear John letter that [SPEAKER_02]: So do you do that just to kind of test the actors out? [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.

25:13 [SPEAKER_02]: But let's find out if this guy can do this or not. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they started looking at some of the stuff you did. [SPEAKER_02]: They do some, a lot of times when you start filming you, you get an easy scene to do, in a much dialogue, just being on character. [SPEAKER_02]: But some of those are really, really difficult scenes. [SPEAKER_02]: For example, when Al Pacino was in the godfather. [SPEAKER_02]: He was just sitting there and watching the wedding and it was kind of he's doing a lot But they the studio executives a lot of these people that look they're either failed directors of failed actors And they then they end up dictating To the performer or to the and they don't know what they're talking about and so there's a lot going on there and so now they're going to fire him [SPEAKER_02]: and they take the scene where he shoots the cop, the dirty cop, and the Italian diner goes into the toilet, pulls the gun out.

26:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And when they see that, they went, okay, he's the right guy, they know he could do that. [SPEAKER_02]: So they did the scene where I present myself to the serial killer [SPEAKER_02]: And I basically say, you know, I'm coming for you. [SPEAKER_02]: And then it was like, oh, okay, he can do this. [SPEAKER_00]: You roll through a bunch of other movies, pay it forward, you're playing a drug addict, angelize with Jennifer Lopez, I am David, you're helping to kid escape the [SPEAKER_00]: Is that right?

27:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Sort of sword work and all that stuff and then you're you kind of got started getting into this a little bit but at some point Mel Gibson had the idea that you would be a good individual to play Jesus and [SPEAKER_00]: He approaches you to to see if you would do it. [SPEAKER_00]: And he seemed to have more apprehension about you doing it than you did. [SPEAKER_00]: At least it seemed that way. [SPEAKER_00]: From from I've heard you tell the story a few times, you know, he kind of gave you a warning. [SPEAKER_00]: You see, if you do this, you won't be all the you'll be ostracized from Hollywood.

27:43 [SPEAKER_00]: You won't work in this town. [SPEAKER_00]: You may never work in this town again. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think a lot of people myself included, you kind of think, well, it doesn't make sense to think that unless in some way you're saying, hey, someone might think, well, what are you trying to, you're trying to play Jesus, that's that's impossible. [SPEAKER_00]: Why would you do that? [SPEAKER_00]: But the feeling is more like you're trying to represent Jesus in a positive way, and so we don't really want you around here, is that kind of, is that kind of what it is? [SPEAKER_02]: I've said this before, not much has changed in 2000 years, Jesus' more controversial today than he's ever been.

28:26 [SPEAKER_02]: The ruler of the world does not like that story. [SPEAKER_02]: And the only story I was interested in was that the real one. [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought that it would be like, [SPEAKER_02]: uh, climbing the hardest side of Mount Everest, the no one's ever done it. [SPEAKER_02]: That was appealing to me. [SPEAKER_02]: That was something like, well, it probably won't work out, but what if it did work out? [SPEAKER_02]: You know, what if we were able to figure this out? [SPEAKER_02]: And so, [SPEAKER_02]: Most people, you just come to me and say, look, here's a big bag of money. [SPEAKER_02]: Just go the other way.

29:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And my mindset would be like, why are you even offering me this money to not do this film? [SPEAKER_02]: And I'd sleep on it and go, that doesn't sit well with me. [SPEAKER_02]: Remember that voice that spoke to you in the theater? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'd like you to be an actor. [SPEAKER_02]: That's probably why you were asked. [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, so I was with my lawyer. [SPEAKER_02]: We met Frank Stewart. [SPEAKER_02]: God bless us all. [SPEAKER_02]: We passed away. [SPEAKER_02]: But he and I met him swimming. [SPEAKER_02]: And he had multiple educations, and he even thought acting. [SPEAKER_02]: He was brilliant, brilliant guy, went to Northwestern, went to Harvard, went to Virginia, went to... And he built his house by hand up in the mountains.

30:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, how'd you do this? [SPEAKER_02]: You know, looking at it and he got to do his read a book. [SPEAKER_02]: But we're well walking beach and going to swim in the water and ocean and I love them the quiet in the morning and just walking and [SPEAKER_02]: the physical pain of getting in the freezing cold water as you know in the especially in the winter you get about 10 minutes of brain freeze it's like you're eating ice cream too fast but if you hang in there you're head'll get real hot and when you come out of the water you just feel like like it's the greatest thing ever ever existed.

30:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought, man, I could give something like that to the world if I do this movie. [SPEAKER_02]: Something like very painful, but then they can come through it and on the other side, they can help them overcome any kind of addiction, drug or just the worldly pleasures that are taking them. [SPEAKER_02]: maybe open up their lives to a purpose, a purpose-driven life like the Saints, you know, and so we're walking along the beach and he, Frank says, you know, look, you're going to have a great career. [SPEAKER_02]: It, no problem. [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess you got to look at it like this. [SPEAKER_02]: If this is one of those things where you look back, [SPEAKER_02]: and you regret it, you might want to consider what that is because once this ship sails, and I was JC of 33 years old at the time, and I really also kept hanging on my neck.

31:41 [SPEAKER_02]: If I pass this up, [SPEAKER_02]: And I think, you know, watching you guys go through, they've taken me a few times to hell week and watching it. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that guy, that's the question, I can you quit right now. [SPEAKER_02]: What it just gets easier and easier in your life to do that. [SPEAKER_02]: will you regret it? [SPEAKER_02]: Sure. [SPEAKER_02]: Heck yeah you will. [SPEAKER_02]: But just so there's a lot of little tricks that you can do along the way to this day in the moment and staying in the moment is in the present. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a gift and you stay right there while you can do it because the time is going to pass. [SPEAKER_02]: And if you can get past just the your central nervous system, all the pain that is going in and You connect in to that eternal spot in your heart where it's just you and in and God and And connect to that cuz really if you really get into it.

32:35 [SPEAKER_02]: It's love. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a deepest deepest thing So when I got on the cross and I accepted it [SPEAKER_02]: all of these things start happening. [SPEAKER_02]: Number one, I get a dislocated shoulder and anybody that's ever experienced a dislocated shoulder, it's hell and it really helped me in the movie because at that point I said, Jesus, I don't want them to see me, I only want them to see you. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's when his adversary came from me and he had to because in first they come they offer you everything which they were doing at the time then comes the if you do this you won't work in this town will take this from you that so what [SPEAKER_02]: I always looked at it like you saved my life, saved my soul, give you, and you love me.

33:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Because you love me, I'll give you everything I got, because I don't deserve that. [SPEAKER_02]: And I love you, because you, you see something in me, and I didn't think much of myself. [SPEAKER_02]: So I was on that cross, and I was like, devil, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he [SPEAKER_02]: If I die here, that's the third part as they come in these, you're going to be dead and I was hit by lightning struck on the fish shot and I had to open heart surgeries at my second surgery at Cleveland Clinic, Dr. Gillen, off Dr. Griffin, saved my life but I died. [SPEAKER_02]: And they had to bring me back and when I was dead, it was the most amazing thing Is that piece and love that I felt the moment he came to me and it was here God has a sense of humor because I felt him like [SPEAKER_02]: you know it's okay just hanging there for a second they flip you back on and just like but he didn't say those words but I could there was like a presence of laughter like we have got this is not a problem.

34:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I could hear the horns going off and everything. [SPEAKER_02]: I talked to my anesthesiologist and Dr. Griffin Dr. Gillen off after you know uh [SPEAKER_02]: a couple weeks later, and I said, I was looking at you guys through my eyes, and how did I look, and they said, well, you were dead, dead eyes. [SPEAKER_02]: But I said, I had the most love and peace around me. [SPEAKER_02]: It was amazing. [SPEAKER_02]: I came back. [SPEAKER_02]: So I still believe that I have a purpose in this in this life and this movie goes soldier is uh I would just you know I thought man if I could ever find something that was represented.

35:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Your community that, because it helped me so many ways, just overcoming pain, dealing with you know, a fliction and their drive, and as I wasn't getting in a lot, I'm in my own church and the reason why is because a lot, they have like paddicate Christianity. [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to be around real warriors, guys that weren't going to leave you in a fox hole. [SPEAKER_02]: That's where my heart was really drawn to, and I wanted to make things that would inspire young boys to become men, not guys. [SPEAKER_02]: There are a lot of, a lot of 30, 40, 50, 60 year old guys, they never became men.

36:08 [SPEAKER_02]: So the the the go soldier had that was written in it Chris Pappacidero. [SPEAKER_02]: I knew it wasn't a Hollywood script right away. [SPEAKER_02]: I knew it had to be a real dude that fought and [SPEAKER_02]: That's the movie that we made and forgive, you know, as if some of it's like, okay, well, that's Hollywood. [SPEAKER_02]: But I would think I'd say that 80% of it is pretty, pretty good, really good. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm hard on my stuff. [SPEAKER_02]: I always want the best, and I always feel like we could, we did pretty darn good, but it should have been better.

36:55 [SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty damn good. [SPEAKER_02]: Don't like perfection getting the way of good, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: When you were reading the script for the passion, did you, could you tell how physically crazy it was going to be? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, you kind of know the script going into it. [SPEAKER_00]: But did you, did you look at it and go, wow, this is really going to be a physical torture in a way? [SPEAKER_02]: uh uh no I didn't and I read it without a dislocated shoulder when I read it and I thought and what's hard about it is that when we were filming met Tara the cross had to be put on my left side and you know this shoulder injury happened when I was doing cast from recovery [SPEAKER_02]: I turned the movie, I'd severed my left-pack, my bicep, my rotator.

37:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And I had my arm taped, I ran with one arm, and I just imagined that we were at war. [SPEAKER_02]: And I was really fighting for my life, my career, everything. [SPEAKER_02]: And I had nowhere else to go. [SPEAKER_02]: I just knew that this was where I had to be. [SPEAKER_02]: And so, I went through that and I thought, you know, this is kind of, it'll just take it one moment at a time, but the killer was the freezing conditions and that forced me in the arms of my god.

38:33 [SPEAKER_02]: because I had nowhere else to go. [SPEAKER_02]: So that was when at the end of the movie, every time I watch it, my body's blue, there's no special effects, it's just blue. [SPEAKER_02]: And I was willing to give my heart to God. [SPEAKER_02]: I was willing, you know, because I couldn't have done. [SPEAKER_02]: People who ask me, would you do it again? [SPEAKER_02]: No, would you want to go to hell week again? [SPEAKER_02]: No. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, but if you look at it, it's like thank you that I went through it because it did exactly what I wanted it to do for people.

39:19 [SPEAKER_02]: And I did the same thing in Go Soldier. [SPEAKER_02]: There was always a hard, there's just different types of hard. [SPEAKER_02]: And but if you embrace that, the embrace the suck as you guys say, um, you can find, um, [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, incredible glory, you know, that, um, you will make your mark in this, in this world. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's really the treasure that, uh, that, that I, that I, that I, my bond with, but ultimately, um, you know, my friend said in my father's house, her many mansions.

40:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, well, I don't need a mansion. [SPEAKER_02]: I, I'll sleep in the ditch next to Jesus's house. [SPEAKER_02]: That's where I want to be in heaven. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you get done with, you know, the passion of the Christ, and there was a couple of movies that you had filmed before, which then came out after it, um, but eventually, so you did Bobby Jones, the highway man, um, and, and the final cut, and eventually you get those come out, and then eventually it's days y'all who echo Charles, do you have any, yes, you want to hit on days y'all who real quick, any questions about that? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, many, but in the spirit of time, saving, no, not a fan.

40:42 [SPEAKER_00]: You're playing a kind of a villain in that movie, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, on that one, it was really interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: There's a scene in there with Denzel and I interrogation scene. [SPEAKER_02]: And I got to see a ETF FBI and you know, they gave me a lot of interrogations scenes that I get to watch. [SPEAKER_02]: And [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm just, during the interviews, I would circle words and, you know, listening to people say, like, I got to watch Dr. James Dobbson's interview with Ted Bundy.

41:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, [SPEAKER_02]: as a serial killer, and then when you're looking at someone who's willing to blow himself up, they talk in different words like destiny, it's my destiny. [SPEAKER_02]: But the demonic oppression or whatever it is in them, it's a different, they're willing to exchange their life and then they're completely committed to do it. [SPEAKER_02]: That's where this guy was and it was written more like a Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer in those interviews that I got to see.

42:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And he wasn't. [SPEAKER_02]: I said you've written him like a serial killer. [SPEAKER_02]: not a unimmoner, a different guy that's going to put a suicide vest on is a different cat. [SPEAKER_02]: But both most people, you know, if you general sheep are going to look at and go, they're all killers, they're all the same, no, they're different. [SPEAKER_02]: And if you know that, and so the [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't go to the devil to play the devil. [SPEAKER_02]: I went to God to tell me who the devil was. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why it was freaky watching that film.

42:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And not being able, not being afraid to go to the dark spots. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, the dark spots is really important because Lucifer is, is, is Lucent means light. [SPEAKER_02]: He remembers what it was to be light, but he cannot duplicate God's love so he uses lust, you know, tries to get close to it. [SPEAKER_02]: But when you're looking at, um, think of Peter jumping out of the boat, and he sees Jesus and he runs to the light, the real true light. [SPEAKER_02]: and then he starts to drown. [SPEAKER_02]: What's what's happening takes his eyes off him. [SPEAKER_02]: The same thing when I'm working, I focus clearly on the Holy Trinity and I and he really helps move me as to where this character is to make him seamless.

43:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Any house builder that's building, a bad builder, will try to make it look like this. [SPEAKER_02]: But a great builder does it in such an organic way and is very organic that the grout lines look almost like you can't tell, I mean, the failure rate as far as [SPEAKER_02]: something that looks fraudulent, looks like it was added onto the house as opposed to was organically already there. [SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of what we're doing as actors is that we're [SPEAKER_02]: It's a, um, you're trying to suspend the belief that, you know, there's obviously a camera, this is all fake, but you want to tell a story and film and, and over the years, you know, back in the 1920s when they get pissed off, they would go, say, hey, I ought to.

44:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, and we accepted that. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, if I saw that now, I go, God, this is a comedy, man. [SPEAKER_02]: That's ridiculous. [SPEAKER_02]: You don't get angry like that. [SPEAKER_02]: So they brought in this method acting, method, and going into your community and feeling what hypothermia was like, oh, wow, you know, this is whole different kind of thing here, okay? [SPEAKER_02]: But going through it is important. [SPEAKER_02]: Hollywood and the reason why Hollywood the fake Ray was like, well, this is how we perceive it to be and you'd watch it and go, you don't do jiu-jitsu. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you can tell it's fake.

45:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So, that film I wanted to make it where you have, you know, good versus evil. [SPEAKER_02]: That's essentially what this thing was about. [SPEAKER_02]: And this force that was coming in was willing to... [SPEAKER_02]: do whatever it took to remove Denzel's character and to the point where I'll find y'all kill you and so you know when they use that well we'll kill you as a okay please do it because I'm gonna take all of you with me that's how my character returned it.

45:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know how like they say, so I've heard that like the most compelling bad guy is a bad guy who really thinks he's the good guy, and they, you know, do you, so when you do play, but you know, as a human being, you know, okay, this is a bad guy I'm about to play, but do you, as an actor, do you put yourself in the mindset of like, no, no, I'm the good guy. [SPEAKER_02]: That's exactly right. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: 100%. [SPEAKER_01]: it really portrayed that if you watch that you're like, brother, this guy thinks he's literally the good guy. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's great. [SPEAKER_00]: Around this time is when you started adopting your kids. [SPEAKER_00]: And how did that change your outlook on the world?

46:36 [SPEAKER_02]: So, we had a try for, we had a couple children that didn't make it in the pregnancy and there's not, well, okay, it's not going to happen for us and then one day I was at the end of Mass, I went in the back and this woman, Susie McAvidi, who's the wife of Steve McAvidi who produced the passion and brave heart. [SPEAKER_02]: She had a picture of my soon-to-be son, Bo, who had a brain tumor. [SPEAKER_02]: He was from China, and I looked into that boy's eyes, and in the picture, and he had a tumor sticking out of his head with the skin, so he had hair around, but on the top it looked like he had a skin cap.

47:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And she said, well, you adopt him, and I heard this in my heart, I said, I heard, well, you love him, we love me. [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, yes, and so she, I turned to my wife, and I said, we should get into this. [SPEAKER_02]: This is right after the passion. [SPEAKER_02]: And we went through the surgery with him as a long process, and I just remember this little boy has nobody, and I get to love his child, and I went through the surgery with him, and it's tough because [SPEAKER_02]: when you go to children's hospital as other parents that their children don't make it and you know that when I came out of surgery and his head was like two heads it was so swollen and you don't ask him questions you just [SPEAKER_02]: you know, give statements.

48:35 [SPEAKER_02]: You look good. [SPEAKER_02]: I love you. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't don't ask him because he won't be able to speak before you go in the room. [SPEAKER_02]: The screaming and the crying from other kids in intensive care where the parents don't make it as hard. [SPEAKER_02]: But so I'm good to be used to hold them, [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, life is like that, you know, you have great, great moments, and then it's also part of the death, but, um, and, and the, um, I just knew that this was planned that I was supposed to follow.

49:20 [SPEAKER_02]: My son made it through, uh, and then we went through, uh, that and then we've, um, they came to us again so we found a girl. [SPEAKER_02]: She has the same kind of issue. [SPEAKER_02]: And that was two years later, and we went through that together, and what ends up happening is that you bond together, what you thought was your best friend really becomes your life partner, and on the deepest, deepest level. [SPEAKER_02]: And then the third one was just a one-year-old and he had a cancer in the leg, but it was supposed to be a tumor and it turned out to be non-rabbed in my OSAR coma, which is one of the worst.

50:11 [SPEAKER_02]: cancers you can get, and it was long, arduous with that one, and one miracle after the other. [SPEAKER_02]: We did not know if it was going to lose any of them, but we went through it together, and I have three healthy children, miraculously. [SPEAKER_02]: The right doctors were there at the right time, and took a lot of prayer. [SPEAKER_02]: And then in all that whole process, there's always these other movies that come up which takes me to a profoundly deep, deep level to be able to convey whatever that is in the story that is, because ultimately all of these films are some kind of weapon, the weapon, here's a great weapon, it's a wonderful life.

51:02 [SPEAKER_02]: You ever seen that movie? [SPEAKER_02]: Jimmy Stewart wins an Academy Award, [SPEAKER_02]: He goes to war, flew 26 missions over Nazi Germany in a liberator. [SPEAKER_02]: He's the head of the entire wing of the command. [SPEAKER_02]: And there's eight men in each plane, B-17's liberators. [SPEAKER_02]: One of those, they have to go quiet on calms. [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember one of his exos saying, [SPEAKER_02]: uh... the screaming from twenty five thousand seventeen twenty five thousand feet and because we did all the missions in the in the in the day the brits did the night and uh... you hear the screaming on the way down and that never leaves you and steward came back and one of the most powerful moments ever in history of film frank capa has a man camera and he says you know he's in a bar he's on it on the outs [SPEAKER_02]: And he's not buying the whole angel's story and his life's his man search for meaning.

52:09 [SPEAKER_02]: He wants to take his own life And he says Heavenly Father, I'm not a praying man, but if you're out there, please help me play Man, I got to tell that man. [SPEAKER_02]: I got to be with Jimmy Stewart before I did the thin red line I got to be with him and talk to him and [SPEAKER_02]: and he told me a young man you go make good movies and when he passed away I think it was July 7th 1997 I was doing the thin red line and at that time I did not know in 2002 the Mel Gibson was going to offer me that film but he was in heaven at that point [SPEAKER_02]: I can imagine Jesus saying what you do with this young man this boy, he's gonna lead a lot of people to me We need to pray for him right now and I have him in my mantle at home.

53:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a wonderful life every year I always watch my stuff. [SPEAKER_02]: I watch his [SPEAKER_02]: And there's something about, there's a connection, there is like a guardian angel with me from heaven, and his stuff really takes me to a place, and I believe that Stuart is receiving all the blessings from all of the, for what he did for me, and then the work that I've done, I think it's an annoyity in heaven. [SPEAKER_02]: Keep people just keep coming back to God because of it. [SPEAKER_02]: If you can handle that and not worry about the popularity stuff, just find out what God wants can keep moving in that direction because ultimately you'll always be worth your salt.

53:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Salt has a taste. [SPEAKER_02]: when you lose that taste, what if you lost, you lost the Holy Spirit, you lost your ability to be grateful and your ability to appreciate. [SPEAKER_02]: And those are two things I can never lose, and this industry can remove that. [SPEAKER_02]: But it's only if you get rid of it. [SPEAKER_02]: And I would say that when I came into the business, I had this image of Jesus holding me. [SPEAKER_02]: How will I do this Lord? [SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, don't worry, I'll protect you. [SPEAKER_02]: I was the Lamb that he held, but then there was a point on the thin red line.

54:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I had a dream, and I was now holding the Lamb. [SPEAKER_02]: And I could do whatever I want with it. [SPEAKER_02]: I could slaughter it and give it and feed it to my friends, or protect it like the most cherished baby, and I still, it's inconceivable to ever give that up. [SPEAKER_02]: It's inconceivable. [SPEAKER_02]: We were just talking about life and death before this whole thing started here today. [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever that's going to be some day with God, our Heavenly Family and be that.

55:12 [SPEAKER_02]: And right now, it's the test, it's the fight, but it's also, you know, living in such a way that you can help bring people to the eternal Word of God and real peace, real holiness, holy body, mind, and soul, whole in your body, in your mind. [SPEAKER_02]: your spirit is what drives the brain and the heart, the body, the mind, it most actors just work from body and mind, but the spirit is so much more, it keeps it going, it keeps it alive.

55:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And when you look at it, Christ's life, it's not about me, he came as a servant, he came, but he is the king, and he was always about others. [SPEAKER_02]: And so that is, you know, the service that I do in my job, it is a job, but it's not about me. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you spent some years on person of interest, uh, I know my buddy, uh, Dave Babin, our buddy, Dave Babin helped you out with some of that stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Eventually, you know, fastwarding through some other stuff, you end up in this movie, this sound of freedom, or I guess it's called Sound of Freedom.

56:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was a really powerful movie that opened people's eyes to the trafficking of children. [SPEAKER_00]: How hard was it to even enter that world and start learning about things that are just absolutely demonic? [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you see the passion of the Christ to get to see the devil in that, very real. [SPEAKER_02]: And that was the first training ground that I had to take me at place where [SPEAKER_02]: Most Christians today are afraid, even modern day Christians are afraid of devil, more than they are of God.

57:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And they should fear actually God. [SPEAKER_02]: But I changed when I went through that training. [SPEAKER_02]: The devil. [SPEAKER_02]: When you say devil and or if he is there, I look at him, but what's looking at him is this Jesus says, I'm the vineyard, you're the branches of leaf and me shall have eternal life. [SPEAKER_02]: That presence in me is the warrior that hunts him down, goes after him. [SPEAKER_02]: And I was very also [SPEAKER_02]: I just played this movie, or I played Herod, it comes out December 11th.

58:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I did five hours of makeup in there. [SPEAKER_02]: And in that movie, I'm the one that orders the killing of all the babies in there, that my character. [SPEAKER_02]: And I just basically, all the chinks on my armor, I reversed it and was able to kind of read the devil of what he was going to be through all the chinks in my armor and throughout all the Hollywood. [SPEAKER_02]: So that I could be seamless and put that out there. [SPEAKER_02]: The children, Moses killed, they tried to kill Moses and they killed the children.

59:09 [SPEAKER_02]: They did it again during the time of Herodon, they're doing it now. [SPEAKER_02]: They're doing it in the womb outside the womb. [SPEAKER_02]: 28 days after in California, you can kill the baby after it's born. [SPEAKER_02]: Look that one up. [SPEAKER_02]: Massachusetts pads them out, outrageous thing. [SPEAKER_02]: All men are created equal. [SPEAKER_02]: We have available rights in this country and this is where my, your community helped me overcome my own life, like [SPEAKER_02]: to live as Christ to die is gain, St. Paul says.

59:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that that is at a righteous fight to fight to the point of where you can lose your life. [SPEAKER_02]: No greater love of you than later life down. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think about the child and the children. [SPEAKER_02]: That, as that was, my wife is very, when I first married her, I was kind of just, you know, people say, well, I'm pro-choice, I'm this. [SPEAKER_02]: So to answer your question, that's how it all started with me. [SPEAKER_02]: And I saw the first abortion ever on a movie called The Clips of Reason with Charlton Heston presenting it. [SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't believe what I just saw. [SPEAKER_02]: That was the beginning of it. [SPEAKER_02]: that I learned and through the passion, the greatest, most beautiful thing that ever was made how it, he was murdered and we allowed it, we all do it through our own sin.

1:00:42 [SPEAKER_02]: But as I go deeper and deeper into the whistleblowers and I've been working with over the years, started giving me information that got deeper and deeper, which is, you know, everything from the border. [SPEAKER_02]: to a drain of crombing, to organ harvesting and it just kept opening up more and more that the media was not discovering that up and this is something that has been going on for a long, long time, thousands of years and it's time it needs to stop and if you were going to exchange your life would that be a good [SPEAKER_02]: would that be a good reason to, and I said for children, 100 percent, 100 percent, I can't the hurting the little ones like that.

1:01:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And so after I've seen what I saw, I wanted to make a film that would open up the eyes to the public about the border, about everything, about what's [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that we did, and all I know we did actually, we were able to, now the public talks about it all the time, but before that film, boy, they went after us, and I was used to that off the passion. [SPEAKER_02]: They went after me, my career, everything, after the passion. [SPEAKER_02]: That was prior to, [SPEAKER_02]: The public saying anything, you know, a Trump saying, you know, the lion media, I already knew they were lying after the during the passion.

1:02:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that was my first training ground and then this film came up and I said that, you know, we could do a lot of good with this. [SPEAKER_02]: Again, the devil is always, I'll kill you if you do this. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, well, you did try to do that on the passion, and you did that to a lot of great saints. [SPEAKER_02]: I would just be joining my brothers and sisters in heaven. [SPEAKER_02]: So, never thought that, you know, doing a film. [SPEAKER_02]: or films could drive people to that kind of insanity, but I go back to the part in the passion where Jesus is father forgiven, they know not what they do.

1:03:03 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people are just brainwashed and [SPEAKER_02]: then let them do what they're going to do, but I have to do what I have to do and then so the gazillions of dollars later we shot that for like eight and a half million dollars and it's a beautiful film. [SPEAKER_02]: beautiful film and it's really helped a lot a lot of people as far as just protecting their own children. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you really parents have to go into a part now. [SPEAKER_02]: You have to pick these guys out when you see these pedophiles that are, you know, going to pray on our children.

1:03:47 [SPEAKER_02]: That has to stop too. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so disturbing to watch and you know it's disturbing because it's what's happening all the time around the world and I think one of the quotes at the end of that movie says that there's more slavery now than there was at the peak of slavery when that slavery in America there's more slavery now and [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of those slaves are child sex slaves, which is just absolutely seconding to think about. [SPEAKER_00]: Now your latest thing you've mentioned it a little bit is this movie Go Soldier is written by a former green beret, so that's awesome.

1:04:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's how you know, as soon as I saw that, that was written by a guy that you know, [SPEAKER_00]: has experience in this world. [SPEAKER_00]: I was definitely excited to see about see that. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's about a guy who's gunning fits, who's kind of a kind of a weapon's designer technology guy, but he's kind of doing that while he's off the grid. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's just trying to live what I assume to be a peaceful life doing his job. [SPEAKER_00]: And some big corporation comes in to try and start taking land and whatnot. [SPEAKER_00]: And well, you might be able to imagine what plays out from there. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: What made you pick this one?

1:05:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, all over America right now, you can't dig a well. [SPEAKER_02]: You can't get access to it. [SPEAKER_02]: You own land that you can't use water. [SPEAKER_02]: You can't grow food. [SPEAKER_02]: You can't. [SPEAKER_02]: It's useless, and the corporations through the IMF, ECB, private West Central Bank, the BIS, the Ross Child Banks, they're controlling these monopolies, which Vanguard, State Street, I think we would call it Brownstone in ours BlackRock. [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, our country is not controlling, it's not by the people for the people, simplify.

1:06:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just not by the people for the people any longer. [SPEAKER_02]: We don't have any control over our own destiny. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's not the way our constitutions written, even through inalable rights, all men are created equal, not born equal, created equal, that we have life liberty in the pursuit of happiness. [SPEAKER_02]: Where does that life come from? [SPEAKER_02]: Who wrote, quoted that Thomas Jefferson? [SPEAKER_02]: Where do you get that from? [SPEAKER_02]: John Locke? [SPEAKER_02]: Where do you get that from? [SPEAKER_02]: Father Suarez, most people don't know this. [SPEAKER_02]: life, liberty in the right to him, property, but what good is owning property when you don't have a year on life. [SPEAKER_02]: And so we're born with these inalable rights.

1:06:43 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I, just in this time, I saw it as Mr. Smith goes to Washington. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but he's in this little area and this guy was like, look, I'm happy doing what I have to do. [SPEAKER_02]: And then this little boy comes along and then he helps the boy served with his father. [SPEAKER_02]: helps the family out and then he's one of those guys it's like look I just want to do how my own little world and and but he can't sleep at night unless he does the right thing which is these people have no way to protect themselves and he knows that so he's got to get he's got to he's got to it involve himself and I kind of related [SPEAKER_02]: Not militarily, because I've never been in your position, but I've done it in a way where I adopted my children.

1:07:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I got involved when I didn't want to My flesh didn't, but my soul knew this is you got to do it [SPEAKER_02]: no one else is going to love this boy, but I love him. [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's what I connected to and then and then just all the years with, you know, like, life and Chris and all their like my brothers and I look up to them and [SPEAKER_02]: was given an extraordinary, they were given extraordinary gifts and we're able to, now I can't do what I can do and they can do what they can do, but together we can help this narrative of making America where it was supposed to be.

1:08:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And all the other countries that they all can be sovereign and that they should be free that not living in slavery. [SPEAKER_02]: So there's a bit of that and that's why I think it's right to come out on Veterans Day, 1-1-1-1, and we showed it last night and this guy was like, this movie's very huge. [SPEAKER_02]: Because there's a very spiritual center in it. [SPEAKER_02]: with Michael the Archangel. [SPEAKER_02]: I remember meeting Harry Humphrey's and he had Michael on his neck. [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, you're religious guy and he goes, no, no, I'm not. [SPEAKER_02]: But it's better than a lucky rabbit foot.

1:09:12 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, he guys have such a sense of humor to you. [SPEAKER_02]: And this guy has that. [SPEAKER_02]: And so [SPEAKER_02]: America is really simple, you know, people want to have a beautiful little piece of land and their water and kind of, and have a connection to neighbor and friendship and, and so there's a bit of spiritual, you know, good Samaritan where [SPEAKER_02]: Now we're always fist bumping but there was a time where we had an open hand and it's hard to fist bump someone when you're going over there and trying to pick someone up like the this Jesus talks about the good Samaritan and and how do you fist bump some poor guy on the street you know he's lying there you got to open your hand up and pull him up we don't tend to shaking but he's hands anymore [SPEAKER_02]: So, I think there's a value there, and again, it was like with Jimmy Stewart told me, Jim, you make good movies, and this is one of those good movies.

1:10:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And that comes out November 11th. [SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever heard of Michael Mansour? [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just making sure because he was, you know, he's a Catholic kid and grew up in Garden Grove, California named after St. Michael and then, you know, was sacrificed his life for our buddies on September 29th, you know, St. Michael's day. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, is that good to sub to speed? [SPEAKER_00]: I know you get a little bit of a timeline. [SPEAKER_00]: Where can people find you? [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you got an organization I want to mention real quick. [SPEAKER_00]: Theinison.org, it's out there, um, trying to help train law enforcement on how to protect kids.

1:11:01 [SPEAKER_00]: You're also on Instagram at the real gym, [SPEAKER_01]: With that any any questions echo channels real quick just as far as nowadays as far as the roles that you choose Do you Require for lack of a better term require like some depth and some meaning behind these roles or is it sometimes just for the fun in the vibes? [SPEAKER_02]: There's always a redemption to the story. [SPEAKER_02]: There's a mathematical reasoning. [SPEAKER_02]: I can't do two and two is seven. [SPEAKER_02]: There's got to be a substance there that does not mean that I have to play the good guy.

1:11:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, you've seen some of the films that play the really bad guy, and it but... [SPEAKER_02]: I am whatever I have to be for the team to work together to make something when you take two hours of your time that you walk out and go, that was well worth my time, and I think this film. [SPEAKER_02]: what if you have a son and I always kept in mind like what would you do if this was your boy and and it it challenges and I think it's going to be great for a lot of them to go I want to be a man like that someday and and it shines a light on the best part of our military warriors that have stayed on the good side because you get to see the bad guys that are really bad that get [SPEAKER_02]: offered a lot of money and uh go the wrong way with it.

1:12:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Anything else echo trials? [SPEAKER_01]: No good to meet you sir. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any closing thoughts? [SPEAKER_02]: No I've I've actually wanted to interview you. [SPEAKER_02]: next time. [SPEAKER_02]: You'd probably say in like, no, I got a kill if I tell you that. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you so much for coming out. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, sharing your lessons. [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for creating some of these incredible films and passing on some of the most, if not the most important messages to the world. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for joining us. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: And with that, Jim Kavizo has left the building.

1:13:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely went through some chaotic evolutions. [SPEAKER_00]: Have you seen the passion of the Christ? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of brutality. [SPEAKER_00]: It goes hard. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was back in the day. [SPEAKER_01]: One of the 2004s? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: They founded it in 2002. [SPEAKER_00]: Something like that. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So I remember watching it. [SPEAKER_01]: It was. [SPEAKER_01]: me in my wife, she wasn't my wife at the time, we weren't even dating at the time, by the way, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: And my brother and his, you just broke one of my theories. [SPEAKER_01]: Wife, what's this? [SPEAKER_00]: Why were you, why were you at a movie with a girl that was not your girlfriend? [SPEAKER_01]: It was at, um, J-Tos. [SPEAKER_00]: We, uh, so it's just a whole friend group. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

1:14:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: So my current wife is the friend of my brother's ex-wife. [SPEAKER_01]: They were friends. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh god, it's not matter. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so we all watched it together. [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I don't even remember what was there. [SPEAKER_01]: But nonetheless, my brother's ex-wife was there. [SPEAKER_01]: We're watch out. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, brother. [SPEAKER_01]: This movie's ghost hard hard and like hard hard. [SPEAKER_01]: And you know that like the it wasn't yeah, it was like the final evolution of that part, you know when he was getting like whipped with those those spiky things and all this all that part of whatever I'm looking over at My brother's wife and she's just crying a whole time like he was too much for her and I was like, oh, I could see it. [SPEAKER_01]: I could see all the controversy but I was unaware of all the political stuff about like oh, this is gonna Which I guess him now it makes sense, but yeah, and went hard for sure [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, it definitely definitely goes hard, and that's another thing I read about it was that Mel Gibson didn't even want to subtitle it.

1:15:01 [SPEAKER_00]: He's just like, people know the story, you know what's happening. [SPEAKER_00]: You'll be able to tell by just the expression and what they're saying, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just going to be an aromack. [SPEAKER_00]: Boom, go. [SPEAKER_00]: Here was a little thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Which I thought would it was is pretty good. [SPEAKER_00]: I read this book in college called Tom Jones. [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably like 500 pages. [SPEAKER_00]: Very thin pages will tiny writing on it. [SPEAKER_00]: And they made a movie. [SPEAKER_00]: of the book. [SPEAKER_00]: And in the movie, there's almost no dialogue at all. [SPEAKER_00]: It's all just acting. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's fascinating, you know, you hear the thing that body language is 80% of it or whatever expressions are 80% of it.

1:15:47 [SPEAKER_00]: The physicality of what you're saying is 80% of what's being communicated. [SPEAKER_00]: And in this movie Tom Jones, it's really amazing that they pull off that whole story. [SPEAKER_00]: So if they could do with Tom Jones, then they could definitely do with the passion, the crisis, they didn't, you don't need to want, you don't need to, the subtitles. [SPEAKER_00]: You can just, you know what's happening. [SPEAKER_00]: You can, you can, you even know, I mean, part of it, you kind of know what they're saying, just from the Bible. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, but, [SPEAKER_01]: yeah crazy that um you're right uh actually there's a thing and I want to say writing or making movies whatever they say show me don't tell me you know like too much exposition it's like not a good thing anyway um two things yeah there's always those scenes where where somebody has to kind of explain the plot for your film yeah the info done yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's all you know in the writing it's always unfortunate that that has to go down yeah yeah where it's like [SPEAKER_01]: Let's they're literally pausing what they're doing for one guy to explain to the other guy.

1:16:49 [SPEAKER_00]: What's good like some You know what's interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: Short did they we did we did a good job of not doing that in a way the word kid and look I know it's a case where it's not like they're super like complicated things are going on but there was definitely some things where [SPEAKER_00]: You you're gonna see it and unless you kind of think about it you won't recognize the heaviness or the the deeper until you watch the couple times you got Oh man, that's why he's saying that. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's why she you know There's a bunch of things in there where you go dang. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay, so [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a big thing about understanding the people in the movie's motivation that's like a big thing.

1:17:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So if a movie can answer those questions, you know, as far as, like, okay, Uncle Jake will say or mark or whoever if we're like, Oh, at any given moment, I can understand this person's motivation. [SPEAKER_01]: you know, that not means you did a good job. [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of times if you, because we don't call, ask this question to ourselves, con just want to watch a movie, like watching Ghostbusters, like, what's freaking Peter Venkpin's motive? [SPEAKER_01]: We don't do that. [SPEAKER_01]: We just have to feel it, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: So if you have someone with this deep history, you can understand their motivation and over time, you understand it more and more and more, the same same, which is like, that's why that's why Star Wars went so well, because if you do that with like a lot of the B, the OG Star Wars, [SPEAKER_01]: I'll say that's it with the so Jim Koviesel passion of the Christ and Deja Vu two quotes from that that I always use in every day life.

1:18:22 [SPEAKER_01]: That's here From Deja Vu it's I believe so right I believe instead of yeah, or I think so he says I believe so yeah And then passion of the crisis my heart will be or my heart is ready Because he says that but I'll text that to you or whoever you know, so that's where I got that from [SPEAKER_00]: When I say, hey, we've got to record it such and such a time tomorrow and he attacks me back. [SPEAKER_00]: My heart is ready. [SPEAKER_01]: Yo, it's what that's true. [SPEAKER_00]: Jack, well, there you go, really, really interesting to talk to him and definitely you can see he's, um, he kind of learned a lot from when he was doing some of the like, some of the hollywood variants of seal training for a movie.

1:19:06 [SPEAKER_00]: and took that away and you know continued running and swimming and all that stuff which is good. [SPEAKER_01]: I do that to sometimes not on that level where I'll but it'll be by proxy fully so like I don't know let's have like doing something that I'm like proud I want to be doing this at all like I'm like it's too hot out here Or it's too cold or I don't know whatever I'm uncomfortable. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be like oh wait Like Jeremy Kate that's went through the this stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: You know like just treat it like that kind of a thing Yeah, look you dig a deep [SPEAKER_00]: See you a little bit shit. [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, if we can leave blowing x Check well Get in shape. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we're doing and if you're gonna be working out running swimming sprinting doing you Jitsu training And actually Jim just said as we walked out he was saying like if there was a gym like this where he lived He'd be training there.

1:19:57 [SPEAKER_00]: He just get out. [SPEAKER_00]: He could go full and end my mat because and I said there's a gyms like this where you're from [SPEAKER_00]: And he goes, not like this, not like this, not like this, not like this, but we're at the gym, we're training and we need fuel. [SPEAKER_00]: Check out chocolatefield.com. [SPEAKER_00]: Check out the Warrior Kid Nutrition. [SPEAKER_00]: We got protein, we got vitamin gummies, we got sleep gummies, we got focus gummies, and we got some tasty. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be straight up, you've seen me, I'll roll in because I don't, I don't really eat breakfast a lot, but sometimes we're coming in here and we're going to record. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm kind of hungry, but I don't want a big, I don't even want a full protein shake before I come in here, but I have a, well, well, I'll just, I'll just get into a little warrior kid protein.

1:20:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Seriously, so good. [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, we just released the, uh, the fruity cereal for warrior kid. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a little box 12 grams protein tastes good as hell. [SPEAKER_00]: So get in there and get whatever you need get energy drinks, get hydration, get protein, ready to drink protein. [SPEAKER_00]: Powder protein, time war, super krill. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want warfare? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of going through my I can see My stack. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we're doing check it out. [SPEAKER_00]: Talk of field calm also check out origin USA.com We make clothing 100% in America up from American made Materials and this is not this might you can just you can just oh American made no big deal no no No, no, no, it's actually a very big deal because we're not just [SPEAKER_00]: We're not just buying materials, sourcing materials from all over the world, and then just assembling them 94% down in Guatemala or Mexico or something.

1:21:41 [SPEAKER_00]: We're taking all the pieces are from America and we're assembling them 100% America. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a big deal because it's how we rebuild our manufacturing capability in America. [SPEAKER_00]: We're making jeans, we're making boots, we're making hoodies, we're making t-shirts, we're making jackets, we're making all kinds of stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: So get out there to origin.usa.com and get yourself some American-made clothing. [SPEAKER_00]: Jiu Jitsu clothing as well, guise, rash guards, the whole nine yards. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we got for you. [SPEAKER_00]: OriginUSA.com, check it out, communist free. [SPEAKER_01]: Screw. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't forget about Jockel Store. [SPEAKER_01]: So right now on JockelStore.com, there's just looking close freedom merch if you will. [SPEAKER_01]: It's an understating because it's like legit.

1:22:21 [SPEAKER_01]: But there's a shirt that we released recently. [SPEAKER_01]: It's called all your excuses or lies. [SPEAKER_01]: You know the old jeet thing you write in the chalk and it you know, so I messed up I didn't get enough again, so we sold out real quick, but We stocking them they're gonna be you know, they're gonna be available very soon by the way Missed out on the the ad that we made [SPEAKER_00]: I got to say I thought you know you kind of set me up like I was making I think you did this on purpose Sure you set me up and I'm saying like oh, you know echo makes these dumb things Whatever But then you made then it see you showed that part of me saying echo does this dumb stuff But then you stepped up your game and they'd like a really cool video.

1:23:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So it makes me look bad [SPEAKER_00]: He looks like I'm an asshole, right. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, jocals over here ragging on echo St. [SPEAKER_00]: He makes lame stuff, but then echo made something super kind of dope. [SPEAKER_01]: Not so much lame. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay You set me up on that one. [SPEAKER_00]: I won't happen again. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you can pay for that Matt's of justice. [SPEAKER_01]: I felt like it all could just come together nicely so that you did a great job [SPEAKER_01]: None of that, and short came out very good, too. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it looks like it's written on chalk. [SPEAKER_01]: It's good. [SPEAKER_01]: And I've seen people wearing those shirts, even before that, because it was part of the short locker before, whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it's good, and I'm very sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought about enough. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm restocking, so be on the lookout for that. [SPEAKER_01]: You can enter in your email in there. [SPEAKER_01]: You get notified when they get what about about your spam you sparing people no spam no spam and that's true that email Entering location is on the price different than joining the email list Would you should have done you would have got the heads up if you're on the email as you get the heads up Same saying because we send it to you, but if something's out of stock you put your email It says notify me when we stocked you just you didn't notify you so you're all good [SPEAKER_01]: So you need to miss out that bad, just time-wise you're not, you don't get the first edition, it's one might say.

1:24:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Right on, check out the movie, Ghost Soldier, and then you got that's November 11th, and then November 25th, you got a little movie called Way of the Warrior Kid, which is based on the way of the Warrior Kid book series. [SPEAKER_00]: So you can get the books right now. [SPEAKER_00]: All of the audio books for the kids books are now available. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you like audiobooks or kids like audiobooks going on to drive, you want to listen to you want to listen to Mark talk about Jitsu and all that stuff and all the issues they're in front of you too! [SPEAKER_00]: funny books. [SPEAKER_00]: They're good. [SPEAKER_00]: They're good listens. [SPEAKER_00]: So check those out. [SPEAKER_00]: And then of course got a bunch of books about all kinds of different stuff as well.

1:24:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Mostly leadership, but also discipline. [SPEAKER_00]: And then we got put your legs on by Rob Jones. [SPEAKER_00]: We got need to lead by Dave Burke. [SPEAKER_00]: And we have a leadership consultancy. [SPEAKER_00]: which you can find out about at echelonfront.com. [SPEAKER_00]: If you have problems inside your organization, you go to echelonfront.com and find out how we can help you lead. [SPEAKER_00]: And when you learn how to lead, you'll solve the problems that you have in your life, in your organization. [SPEAKER_00]: echelon front dot com and then extreme ownership dot com is our online learning academy where you can learn the skills of leadership online and then if you want to help service members active and retired you want to help the families you want to help go store families check out Mark Lee's mom mama Lee she's got an amazing charity organization if you want to donate or you want to get involved go to america's mighty warriors dot org [SPEAKER_00]: Also check out Heroes and Horses.org and Jimmy May's organization beyond the brotherhood.org, and if you want to connect with us, if you want to connect with Jim Kavizo, you can go to the Real Jim Kavizo for Instagram, and then Twitter, Exxon, Facebook, he's that really Kavizo, and then also check out theInnocent.org is another charity organization helping train law enforcement to protect [SPEAKER_00]: Children and then for us check out jacquad.com and then on social media, I'm at jacquad willing and echoes at echo trails.

1:26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Just actually, you're better off if you don't do that. [SPEAKER_00]: You're better off if you just don't go on social media. [SPEAKER_00]: You just ignore it. [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks once again to Jim Kaviesel for joining us here today for making films with a [SPEAKER_00]: much needed message for the world. [SPEAKER_00]: Check out his movies, including ghost soldier out now. [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, thanks to our military personnel, who are also right now stationed around the globe, in harm's way, and they're out there to protect us and protect our way of life. [SPEAKER_00]: We are thankful to all of you. [SPEAKER_00]: Also, thanks to our police law enforcement Firefighters, Paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, as well as all other first responders.

1:26:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for protecting us and our families here on the home front. [SPEAKER_00]: And to everyone else out there, a great message from Jim Kaveso that we started this podcast with, freedom exists not to do what you like, but to do what you ought, what that means is do the right thing, not the easy thing, not the thing that you might like to do in that moment, but the thing that you need to do, the thing that you ought to do, the right thing. [SPEAKER_00]: stay on the path. [SPEAKER_00]: And you do that by getting up each and every day and getting after it.

1:27:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's all we've got for tonight. [SPEAKER_00]: And until next time, this is Echo and Jocco out.